The Rent! (Due on Monday)

[Chava]

I read in The Blackest Streets--which by the way is a wonderful book--that rent in the East End was always due on a Monday. So why was Bowyer sent on a Saturday to get some money from Kelly? How often and when did McCarthy collect his rent in Millers Court? We don't hear that Bowyer was sent round any other time that week. Amazing coincidence that he was asked to go to #13 two days ahead of when the rent was due and just on the morning she'd been taken apart by person or persons unknown.

This makes me even surer that McCarthy knew what was waiting next door and wanted it discovered soonest. I've changed my mind somewhat about his culpability now that I've collated all those fair-haired/ fair/auburn-moustached men in their 30s seen with various victims. But I still think he either had a peek through the window or opened the door and saw her before he went to bed on Friday night. I understand that she owed a lot of money, and Friday night would have been prime time for successful hooking and so getting a few pennies together. But she'd been seen drunk and not working throughout most of the evening, and I can't believe he wasn't aware of that...

[Monty]

Chava,

If youre owed money you never hit on the day they are expecting you.

Monty

[Jon Guy]

Hi Chava

Bowyer`s visit on the Friday morning may have something to do with Barnett`s visit to No.13 the night before, when Joe turned up to tell Kelly he had no money to give her.

Also, Friday was the Lord`s Mayor Show. A day out for many, so catch her before she goes out and blows (excuse the phrase) the lot.

[Supe]

Chava,

So why was Bowyer sent on a Saturday to get some money from Kelly?

Kelly was killed very late on Thursday evening or in the wee hours of Friday morning.

As it is, if Bowyer was sent only to Number 13 I would say it strengthens my speculation in an earlier article that there was a monetary arrangement between McCarthy and Kelly. But we really don't know how, when and how often rents were collected in Miller's Court do we?

Don.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Taking a lot of what we know into consideration, i would suggest that McCarthys nocturnal habits of watching the coming/goings of court inhabitants might be the reason he believed kelly might have earned a few shillings.
Fiona K , did give us that snippit before she was scared of the boards, around a year ago, and i would not be surprised if he saw more then he informed police.
Regards Richard.

[Supe]

Richard,

Quite agree that McC likely kept close tabs on his manor. And conversations, like he had with Liz Prater that Thursday night, only added to his knowledge of the comings and goings. And, if that is accepted. it is only one more reason to dismiss the testimony of Caroline Maxwell.

Don.

[richardnunweek]

Hello Don,
Even McCarthy needed sleep, we know he was up and around at 1pm, talking to Prater, and if it was his nocturnal habits to watch court residents, until the early hours, at least until people arrive back from the pubs, then one can assume he hit the sack.
That being the case, he would not be awake at dawn, that is why Mrs M was a possible alleged witness, as she proberly opened the shop at dawn that day, which was proberly the norm.
I can not see why that would reject Maxwells claims.
Regards Richard.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Don,
just had a thought i wonder what the layout of McCarthys shop was?, did the serving counter, have a view of entries to the passage, or was it a blind spot?
Could anyone have seen the comings and goings of the court from the front of the shop?
I had not thought of that before.
Richard.

[Chava]

Sorry! I initially had it as Thursday/Friday and then checked it and checked it wrong!

I do think McCarthy kept tabs on Kelly. But I don't think she had many customers. Yes, Barnett turned up and may have given her a few pence, but she was seen drinking that evening, and I suspect that's where Barnett's money went and McCarthy knew that. I think he checked in on her in the small hours and got a very nasty shock. Too late to do anything. And he may have needed a bit of time to come up with a story about the back-rent--which I bet she had been paying off in kind...

[perrymason]

I believe there is a need to qualify what is being collected in the form of "rent", since we know that tenants rented daily, weekly, or monthly. Most of these tenants were daily, and it seems by some of the evidence in Polly's investigation and other Canonical's that they could be rented with only a few hours of darkness left. Polly may still have thought of making a bed payment that night, for example.

We know the amount she (Mary) is overdue, but not the period of time the arrears took place over, so we cant just conclude she was consistently paying nothing for weeks on end, she may have been "piecing" the debt off, and putting some money down on the current weeks rent due.

Ive read that weekly tenants rent was collected before the weekend was through, Friday or Saturday morning, and it was a pre-payment of the next weeks lodgings.

I think landlords grudgingly accepted some deliquents and the defaulters because their costs in terms of upkeep, sanitation, security, were nil. Who knows, maybe a goodwill gesture like letting someone stay even while paying less rent makes them feel better about the poor and sick they took advantage of. Or it makes them look like better people.

Best regards all.

[The Good Michael]

I believe there is a need to qualify what is being collected in the form of "rent",

Michael,

BY putting rent in quotation marks, it seems that you are alluding to something like Mccarthy taking his rent out in trade on Kelly. Is this your suggestion? If so, maybe Bowyer's visit was a different type of collection.

Mike

[Archaic]

Watching the Shop

I agree with what's been said, that even if the Rent in Miller's Court was 'officially' paid by the Week, it makes sense that a smart landlord would have realized it was much more efficient to try to get a bit of money every day or so from lodgers like Kelly, rather than see it squandered on booze by tenants who were chronically empty-handed on Rent Day.

And of course a sharp businessman like McCarthy would have had multiple pairs of eyes helping him 'watch the shop'. Maybe this more 'active' method of supervision was one of the keys to McCarthy's long-term financial success?

*Can anybody convey a bit of what Fiona K said or implied about McCarthy & his business practices? Or direct me to the appropriate thread? I'm curious.

Thanks very much, Archaic

[The Good Michael]

Archaic,

Fiona K. is still working on her book. I would take anything she says about John M. as being slanted towards the family memories of him being nearly saintly. I'm fairly certain she didn't have the details you are looking for. There is another Fiona (R) who has written a book about Dorset Street. I think it is called "The Worst Street in London." This book has a bit about Mccarthy. There is a great podcast here: http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=72

I highly recommend it.

Mike

[richardnunweek]

Hi Archaic,
If you go into search , and enter Fiona kendall, you will find it proberly there.
Fiona was the great grandaughter of Kellys landlord McCarthy, and because of this she was able to give a insight to the family, inherited down via her father/grandfather,
She mentioned that at millers court it was his common practise to spy out of his back parlour into the court, as he liked to keep tabs on his residents.
In the case of kelly, he had reason to physical eject a man who came looking for Mary shortly before her death , claiming she stole a watch from him.
Fiona described this incident as 'sent him packing in typical McCarthy style, in no uncertain terms'
Her grandfather 14 years old at the time described Mary[ who he knew] as a beauty, with lovely distinctive hair. also after her death his mother[ McCarthys wife] packed up kellys few belongings and forwarded them on to her brother who was in the army, he was concerned however that he being involved with the last victim of the whitechapel murderer , might harm his prospects in the army. she apparently had nothing to do with her parents.
he [ fionas grandfather] saw Marys passport.
She also claimed that her great-grandather, her grandfather, her father, and herself knew who Jack the ripper was.
This angered many members of casebook, and she was verbally accused of fabrication, and because of this refused to answer any questions, except to Coral, who she trusted.
Hope this helps
Regards Richard.

[The Good Michael]

Richard,

I don't remember her being accused of fabrication. I remember some outlandish statements with no backing.

Mike