The Suspect Link to Mary Jane Kelly Poll

[iris84]

Mrs Prater's kitten. Some people genuinely think he was the Ripper, and I'm one of them

Ah, ok. Yeah, I can see it now. Mary aggravates a normally placid cat, and the claws are out.

Did he ever get questioned? Did he have an alibi?

[Malcolm X]

HUTCH
FLEMING
BLOTCHY

with these words ``a dear friend, a trusted one, someone close`` seriously bothering me

because for someone that was worried about JTR, Mary made a serious error of judgement that night............... but she would not have made this error if she saw LA DE DA, especially carrying that parcel; he simply looks far too evil to be JTR.........joe Average only

[iris84]

HUTCH
FLEMING
BLOTCHY

with these words ``a dear friend, a trusted one, someone close`` seriously bothering me

because for someone that was worried about JTR, Mary made a serious error of judgement that night............... but she would not have made this error if she saw LA DE DA, especially carrying that parcel; he simply looks far too evil to be JTR.........joe Average only

Hmm, but she was intoxicated. I suppose it echoes the whole letting your guard down when drunk theme.

I mean, the radio adverts we had recently in the UK spring to mind for me, which went along the lines of "you wouldn't do [insert stupid action here] whilst sober. Why do it when you're drunk?"

MJK could have been the inspiration for the advert. "You wouldn't invite a man carrying some strange parcel back to your place in the midst of the murders whilst sober..."

[Malcolm X]

yes the booze is a huge factor here, you just dont notice danger while drunk........but she was killed whilst probably sobering up (4am), being most drunk at about 1.30am....most odd, my guess is that she woke up from a deep sleep, with either the ripper in bed with her, or having broken in via the window.

[Malcolm X]

but i tell you what, to me it seems like someone that knew her, i just cant figure out why Kelly invited BLOTCHY back to her place.......... the ripper if he didn't now her, must've been fairly sociable and not a total odd-ball.
and definitely not LA DE DA, as said; he looks too evil with that parcel in his hand........i think we can forget all that Hutch rubbish, well i will anyway.

so we have blotchy going into Kellys at 11.45 and the cry of ``oh murder`` at 4am, kelly singing to about 1 or maybe 1.20am. and a large gap of 2.5 hours to her time of death, blotchy would've had to leave at about 2.50 am ( the latest) to tally with HUTCH walking away from Dorset st at 3am.

giving her a good hour to fall into a deep sleep before returning........now Fleming, unless he's Blotchy.........would have to wait outside exactly as per Hutch, to kill her at 4am.

was Hutch covering for Fleming....was Fleming Blotchy face and was Hutch waiting outside to make sure that nobody was going to come along and disturb Fleming, while he butchered Kelly...........what were those 2 doing living in the Victoria homes, that's a bit suspicious!

what was Kelly really like to have an ex-lover want to butcher her like that, look at Joe BARNETT too, was Kelly a selfish Bitch, a spiteful woman etc etc, a user of men, well we dont know for sure, but there are suspicions. You're looking at an ex-lover with a serious grudge here, she must've seriously annoyed him in some way, becaue simply dumping him is not enough to generate that much twisted hatred. ..... but Fleming was some time ago, because that type of psycho is more likely to stalk her all the time...follow her everywhere, become totally obsessed; but Kelly doesn't mention any this........... but he did move to Victoria homes.

to me HUTCH definitely looks like the Ripper, but this Fleming is a real fly in the soup.

i must get those signatures checked

[Chava]

Blotchy all the way!

With Barnett or Flemming coming in behind and McCarthy a distant 4th.

Whoever it was, I think she opened the door to him late in the evening and then went back to bed. Unlikely, in my opinion, that a random killer would take a chance on finding her alone and break in via a hand through the jagged glass of the window to get the lock. It's possible but I don't think it's probable.

[kensei]

I hate to be nit-picky but I just noticed- aren't "Other" and "None of them" the exact same thing? Curious that they are exactly tied right now.

[Sam Flynn]

I hate to be nit-picky but I just noticed- aren't "Other" and "None of them" the exact same thing? Curious that they are exactly tied right now.

... agreed, Ken. Perhaps people should mentally combine those two categories when assessing the state of the poll. At the moment, therefore, "Somebody Else" is in the lead on 8, with Blotchy in second place on 6.

[Sam Flynn]

Whoever it was, I think she (1) opened the door to him late in the evening and then went back to bed. Unlikely, in my opinion, that (2) a random killer would take a chance on finding her alone and break in via a hand through the jagged glass of the window to get the lock. It's possible but I don't think it's probable.

... you missed out the scenario whereby she (3) picked someone up and brought him back - which is not only the "traditional" explanation, but by far the more likely of the three.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Just to add a fourth possibility.
She was chatted up outside Ringers at 845pm, by Maxwells market porter, and she returned to her room alone, to await his visit, this suited both Kelly, so she would not be seen bringing a man back at that hour, and most certainly suited JTR, as he would not be seen with the victim, entering the court.
I have always, since day one of my intrest in this subject believed this scenerio, regardless of dodgy medical opinion, and i can picture kelly saying to her soon to be killer.' Down the passage , second door on the right dearie, come straight in, the door wont be locked, i be waiting for you, just give me a few minutes'
That would explain many puzzles around this murder, for instance, that she was seen , and why she was in a state of undress, and was able to do so before being attacked.
Regards Richard.

[Ben]

... you missed out the scenario whereby she (3) picked someone up and brought him back - which is not only the "traditional" explanation, but by far the more likely of the three.

I don't think it's more likely than the premise that the killer broke into the premises, not necessarily by reaching through a broken window, but my pushing a latched door open, Gareth, and that's at the risk of adding the last bit of ingredients for another long-windeded and invasive thread...!

All the best,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

Just to add a fourth possibility...

... which is that she picked up and invited her killer to her room. Good point, Rich, and quite correct. However, that could have happened at any time, so it's actually independent of the Maxwell controversy - so let's not get into that!

[Ben]

I'd be interested to know what the voters for Astrakhan make of the fact that Lawende was used in preference to Hutchinson for identity attempts with suspects such as Kosminski, Grainger and Sadler, or why Robert Anderson believed that the only person to have acquired a good look at the murderer was Jewish, or why Macnaghten believed that nobody saw the Whitechapel murderer unless the sighting originated from "near Mitre Square".

Not a witch-hunt.

I'm genuinely interested.

[Malcolm X]

I'd be interested to know what the voters for Astrakhan make of the fact that Lawende was used in preference to Hutchinson for identity attempts with suspects such as Kosminski, Grainger and Sadler, or why Robert Anderson believed that the only person to have acquired a good look at the murderer was Jewish, or why Macnaghten believed that nobody saw the Whitechapel murderer unless the sighting originated from "near Mitre Square".

Not a witch-hunt.

I'm genuinely interested.

maybe these are newbies to the board Ben, i'm so surprised that LA DE DA is in second place, i'd have put him at the bottom of the list.

Blotchy is first, well that makes sense i suppose............just !

[Chava]

... you missed out the scenario whereby she (3) picked someone up and brought him back - which is not only the "traditional" explanation, but by far the more likely of the three.

But not the most likely in my opinion, Gareth. Because unlike the others she had time to undress and get into bed. If the killer is running true to type, he kills as soon as he gets the chance. There is no clinical finding of recent sexual intercourse on the bodies. He could, of course, have pranced into the backyard of 29 Hanbury St and chatted amiably with Annie Chapman before he killed her. But I doubt that very much. In Kelly's case, he waits for her to undress and get into bed and possibly go to sleep, since she was killed facing the wall while apparently lying on the bed. (I think this last is unlikely, since it would be almost impossible to get a clean cut of the neck if the victim is lying down like that. More likely she was lying on her right shoulder facing right, and then she was pulled up suddenly and the blow delivered while her upper body was off the mattress.)

In any case, she had much more time alive with the killer than the others had. Or, as I've said above, she knew the guy and let him back into her room, and he killed her as soon as she lay down on the bed. This doesn't preclude her picking up the killer and bringing him back with her. My most likely suspect as of right now is Blotchy Face, and I'm sure she picked him up and brought him back. However he clearly didn't kill her when I think he intended to--possibly because he had been so comprehensively 'seen' by Mary Ann Cox. So he leaves and makes an excuse to come back later when he's cased the joint and believes she's alone. There's your Lewis sighting of the man 'looking up the court'. Maybe he left his little pot of ale behind and 'came back for it...'

All supposition, of course.