MJK photo 4 enhanced

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, Steve

Nope. Elbow next to edge of table in MJK1 and elbow next to tip of bolster in MJK3. The bolster is almost touching the elbow in MJK3 but it's not even visible in MJK1.

Line of sight, Stephen. Not to mention parallax. The elbow is no more "almost touching" the bolster in MJK3 than the moon "almost touches" the Sun during an eclipse. The eclipse analogy is a useful one, in that it depends on your vantage point (or where your camera is set up) as to whether you'll see a total or a partial eclipse, or none at all. In other words, the juxtaposition of the objects one sees depends on one's frame of reference.

If both Kelly photos (front and back view) had been taken at precisely the same angle, it'd be a rather different story - but it's obvious that, whilst MJK1 was taken from a vantage point roughly perpendicular with the windows, MJK3 was taken at an angle of 45+ degrees to the plane of MJK1.

Diagram showing approximate plane of MJK1 (blue line) vs equivalent for MJK3 (red line):

[Nemo]

I think the table is further away from the bed than you think.

The table legs are quite long.

The table top is above Mary's head height when she is lying on her bed

PS Actually, on second thoughts, the table height appears different in each photo - strange perspective indeed

Has the left knee position changed vertically?

[Stephen Thomas]

Sam, Steve

Nope. Elbow next to edge of table in MJK1 and elbow next to tip of bolster in MJK3. The bolster is almost touching the elbow in MJK3 but it's not even visible in MJK1.

[sgh]

Sam - you beat me to it!

Projected line photos to prove the bed was not moved for the MJK3 photo.
This might look a little confusing at first viewing but follow it through to get a good understanding.
The red lines drawn in both photos support the fact of no bed movement comparing one photo to the other.
I hadn't seen Sam's post until I was about to upload these, however I'm pleased that mine compares with Sam's pretty darn close.
I'll later try to add labels for those who may find it difficult to follow the geometry, but I feel that a careful study should not be too much of a problem.

[Sam Flynn]

But irrespective of size, how do you account for it moving two feet?

By realising that it wasn't moved by two feet.

Look at MJK2. If you look at the top of the circular mark on Kelly's right calf, and mentally draw a line from it through Kelly's left knee, you'll see that it lands on the leading edge of the pile of flesh on the table:



Drawing a similar line on MJK1, you'll see that it misses the leading edge of the pile of flesh by a mere inch or so:



Allowing for distortion and perspective, a discrepancy of an inch or two over a distance of some 4 or 5 feet is hardly significant.

[WARSPITE]

Great work sgh, Ive been trying to fatham out the various anatomy since dissection classes at medical school, but must admit its difficult. The pelvis and perineum have been totally destroyed.
Incidentally,whereabouts in Cheshire are you?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

Yes, it's all very odd, but then nothing's straightforward in the Ripper mystery.

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Simon

I've just checked both photos and I see what you mean.

In MJK1 the front of the table appears to be next to Kelly's elbow.

In MJK3 the 'nose' of the bolster appears to be in that position.

Perhaps the table was indeed moved to photograph what was on it.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Sam,

I have no idea of the size of the table.

But irrespective of size, how do you account for it moving two feet?

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam,

That was a nifty bit of photoshoppery, but your premise [which I don't believe] only works if the table was moved.

I disagree. How long do you think that table was, Simon? In MJK1, we're lucky if we can see ten inches' worth of table all told, a foot at most. If you're suggesting that the bedside table was only 1 square foot in area, then that ain't a table - it's a milking-stool.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Sam,

That was a nifty bit of photoshoppery, but your premise [which I don't believe] only works if the table was moved.

In MJK1 the corner of the table aligns roughly with the victim's elbow. In MJK3 the same corner [just out of frame to the right] has moved towards the foot of the bed beyond the victim's knee by a distance of around 20-24 inches.

Regards,

Simon

[Suzi]

Hi Oldsen .....and welcome!

The table at the side of the bed- or wherever it was placed for photography- and the bolster have been the subject of much discussion over the years (Check out the bolster threads) -the consensus being that the 'crocodile' is a man made bolster or pillow of some kind alongside something unspeakable from the innards of poor Mary

.....and as a by the way-the 'bedroll' thing at the end of the bed has been the subject of even more kerfuffle-camera rests or anything else you can imagine! etc etc etc .

Suzi x

[Oldsen]

Theres been much debate on what that Bolster really is....but I think recent image enhancements offered here suggest that it is in fact what can be described as a Bed Accessory, or something akin to a Body Pillow.

All right, but just for the record, the more I look the "folded bolster" together with the hand, the more it all looks to me as part of a single human body: leg, naked arm and the hand just at the end of the arm.


Thanks for the welcome and best wishes!

[Suzi]

Posting a pic on Individual forums under Suzi re that arm!... done that!

The 'stuff' on the table bolsters and nastiness doesn't have a single digit in sight

[Suzi]

Hi Michael

How many of the Police were in the room once the door was opened I have no idea-
Paul Begg says in The Facts :
"After considerable delay and diffulculty a photographer was brought to the scene and photographs were taken of the interior and exterior of Miller's Court.A slight drizzling rain was falling and it was so overcast that it was almost dark.In the conditions and with the equipment available, the photographer did a remarkable job. The photographs still exist. They convey far better than words ever could the sheer barbarity of Jack the Ripper."

Inspectors Reid and Abberline arrived after this. Anderson arriving at 1.50 pm Dr George Bagster Phillips arrived at 11.15. Closely followed by Dr Bond who began his examination at around 2.00 pm The other medics Dr Gordon Brown and a Dr JR Gabe arriving soon after.

Both Dr Phillips and Dr Bond believed that the body had been moved into the found position by the murderer and that Kelly had been lying on the right side of the bed, her head and neck in the top right hand corner. This conclusion was indicated by the large quantity of blood under the bedstead and the saturated condition of the palliase,pillow and sheet"