MJK photo 4 enhanced

[sgh]

Not quite convinced myself. The strip of light extends to far down for it to be a window. Also the curtains would be open to let as much light in as possible as I don't think a flash would have been used.

Rob

Rob, and Simon for that matter.
I can't figure anything else logical to cause the strip of light to cease as it does
in the photo apart from the bottom sill of the smaller window behind those curtains causing the stoppage.

Regarding your comment that the curtains would be open to allow as much light as possible (for the photo).
There's a very simple basic photographic solution as to one reason why the curtains remained closed for the photograph - expose for either the highlights
or the shadows!
If the curtains were opened and the photographer exposed for the victim, the amount of light coming through the window and directly towards the lens positioned as it was in the fairly dark room would be far too great and cause
a large area of the photo to be 'blown out' - a great loss of detail.

With the curtains almost drawn together a longer exposure can be made using the available light from the 2nd window out of shot to the right, thus
enabling a certain degree of detail on the victim and other objects in the room
to be successfully recorded with a fair degree of certainty.

Here's another of my diagrams that should explain how different exposures
behave when facing a window and trying to capture details.

These were taken on a dull day in December by the way.

Best
Steve

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

You wrote, "If the ones [curtains] on the smaller window were muslin then so be it. The light source on MJK3 is pretty obviously from the larger window, judging by the shadows."

How does that work? According to Steve's plan the smaller window is the only one visible to the camera. Therefore light should have been visible through its muslin curtains.

Sorry, Stephen, the whole premise of the light source in MJK3 doesn't wash.

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

I do think a candle light inside the room would be visible through the muslin should anyone be looking into the room via those windows...

Who's to say those weren't temporary drapes put up by the police to shield the scene from prying eyes? Or, if they weren't, that the police had rearranged the existing curtains after Bowyer had disarranged them earlier? Or, again, what if Bowyer had caused that gap to appear in the curtains himself?

What with all the activity, there's no reason to suppose that the drapes were arranged precisely as Mary had left them the previous night.

that Mary Ann Cox...

Please let's stick to the photo here !!!! There are plenty of "What happened on the night/Miller's Court witnesses" threads elsewhere.

Bowyer testified he moved the "curtain" slightly to look in, not a Pilot Coat or anything else, and many reports suggest muslin curtains. Methinks the notion that the Pilot Coat was hung there to block the broken pane cannot be substantiated....and curtains, particularly cheap semi transparent muslin ones would be an obvious fit with a dive.. like this room was.

I do think a candle light inside the room would be visible through the muslin should anyone be looking into the room via those windows...cant say she did, but every exit that Mary Ann Cox made from inside the court after 11:45pm on the 8th would have her being able to see into the room via the window to discern light inside, should she want to, or had anything caught her eye of course.

Nothing apparently did after 1:30 anyway.

Best regards all.

[Stephen Thomas]

There are two newspaper accounts [among others which say the window was covered with a pilot coat, had blinds or that rags were stuffed into the broken panes] which report that the smaller window had muslin curtains.

Muslin is a semi-transparent material which would not block out the light to anything like the degree shown in MJK3, and any of the alternatives would not have had an irregular gap down the middle.

Hi Simon

13 Millers Court must have had curtains on both windows unless Mary and Joe were exhibitionist weirdos which I would think is unlikely. If the ones on the smaller window were muslin then so be it. The light source on MJK3 is pretty obviously from the larger window, judging by the shadows. And JTR wouldn't have done all that he did behind see-thru curtains. Steve's diagram is the dog's bollocks as far as I'm concerned. The shaft of light in the background HAS to be a gap in the curtains of that window.

[Malcolm X]

ok... that's cool

[Simon Wood]

Hi MX,

The cops boarded up the windows and door of Room 13 after the victim's body had been removed in the late afternoon.

Regards,

Simon

[Malcolm X]

i saw an illustration on google of both those windows nailed over with wooden boards, to me they dont look like cutains, mind you the photo looks very poor at range

[Simon Wood]

Hi Rob,

I'm with you.

There are two newspaper accounts [among others which say the window was covered with a pilot coat, had blinds or that rags were stuffed into the broken panes] which report that the smaller window had muslin curtains.

Muslin is a semi-transparent material which would not block out the light to anything like the degree shown in MJK3, and any of the alternatives would not have had an irregular gap down the middle.

Regards,

Simon

[Rob Clack]

Not quite convinced myself. The strip of light extends to far down for it to be a window. Also the curtains would be open to let as much light in as possible as I don't think a flash would have been used.

Rob

[sgh]

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Greatly appreciated - Thank you Sam.

Best Regards
Steve

[Sam Flynn]

Steve has really cracked this one to my mind by tracking the angle of view of the two cameras used and he has demonstrated elsewhere how the two views match. The doorknob he found is just the icing on the cake.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[sgh]

Hi Steve

That diagram in post #211 is absolutely brilliant. Many thanks. I'd thought of trying to pinpoint the shaft of light using a cardboard box, a doll and some felt tipped pens (as one does) but you've saved me the bother.

Rob and Simon

Steve has really cracked this one to my mind by tracking the angle of view of the two cameras used and he has demonstrated elsewhere how the two views match. The doorknob he found is just the icing on the cake.

Hi Stephen,
I'm glad that you have carefully studied how the camera angles and what they see matched up with the objects both ways. That was crucial to an accurate representation.
There's no harm to trying out the cardboard box model, and you never know, it could answer more questions and perhaps create some new ones too! :-)

Many Thanks for having a good hard clear look at my efforts, Stephen
it makes it all worthwhile !

Best Regards
Steve

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Steve

That diagram in post #211 is absolutely brilliant. Many thanks. I'd thought of trying to pinpoint the shaft of light using a cardboard box, a doll and some felt tipped pens (as one does) but you've saved me the bother.

Rob and Simon

Steve has really cracked this one to my mind by tracking the angle of view of the two cameras used and he has demonstrated elsewhere how the two views match. The doorknob he found is just the icing on the cake.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mr Hyde,

As Room 13 was once a humble kitchen and scullery, I doubt its external door sported any secondary security devices.

Regards,

Simon