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The Welsh connection - contemporary investigations

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  • The Welsh connection - contemporary investigations

    Western Mail
    13 November 1888

    The fact that Marie Jeanette Kelly, the last victim of the Whitechapel fiend, was at one time a resident of Wales naturally intensifies the interest felt throughout the Principality in the mysterious and melancholy massacre of London unfortunates. So far the attempts made to identify the poor girl in Wales have not been very successful, which is not surprising looking to the contradictory character of the information secured in London. Her paramour's evidence at the inquest leaves much open to conjecture. She had told him that she was born in Limerick, but when very young was brought to Wales by her father, John Kelly, a "gaffer" in an ironworks in either Carnarvonshire or Carmarthenshire. The latter county was the one meant, no doubt, since the northern shire has no ironworks. This information inferentially brings us back to the original statement, that the father was employed at Llanelly, the only town in Carmarthenshire which had an ironworks years ago. Interpreting the additional statement that she married a collier named Davies, who was killed in a colliery explosion, by the light of local knowledge the event which widowed her must have occurred outside that county, where the colleries are almost without exception not dangerously fiery, and where no serious explosion seems to have happened during the last five or six years. The name Kelly is familiar enough in Llanelly, and there should be no difficulty in ascertaining the truth of the victim's story. The very circumstantial information supplied today by our Swansea reporter throws new light on the subject. Unless there be a mistake in the identidication - and the presumption is opposed to that - he has dispersed all the mystery which enveloped her Welsh antecedents.

    Western Mail
    12 November 1888

    Our Swansea reporter writes:-
    The very name of Whitechapel is regarded with such general loathing that one might expect it would be cautiously avoided as a topic of conversation. The news, however, of the sixth (or seventh) murder in this vicinity furnished by the papers on Saturday was a subject more freely canvassed than any other at Swansea, and there was, of course, a good deal of speculation as to whether the police would this time be too many for the wily perpetrator. The subject exerted the more interest on it coming to light during the day that the murdered woman Kelly was for some time a resident of Swansea. She was, I am informed, born in a house near the National Schools, Llanelly. She came to Swansea, and entered the service of a Mr and Mrs Rees (the latter being the daughter of the late Dr Hopkins, of Carmarthen, and now awaiting her trial for murder) where she remained for about six months. She afterwards lived at Swansea, and her morals became more questionable every day. She is described as a fine, well built girl.
    Our reporter made inquiries at Cardiff Police station, in order to discover if the unfortunate woman was known to the police. He was informed by Mr Hemingway (the head constable) that he had no recollection of anyone answering the description of the victim, and that so far as he was aware, the woman had not come under the notice of the police.

    Western Mail
    13 November 1888

    THE VICTIM'S ANTECEDENTS
    HER CONNECTION WITH CARMARTHEN, SWANSEA, AND LLANELLY

    Our Swansea reporter wrote on Monday night as follows:-
    The rumour to which I gave publicity yesterday as to the deceased woman Kelly's connection with Carmarthen and Swansea proved to be in the main true. There is, however, one point in which I was inadvertently led into error, and as it might, in the opinion of some (although I hardly think so myself), be calculated to prejudice the mind of the public against Mrs Rees, who was stated to be the mistress of the deceased, I gladly take this opportunity of correcting it. It appears that Mr Rees had been married before he led the daughter of Dr Hopkins to the altar. I had no knowledge of this fact. It was while he was living with his first wife that the woman Kelly was in his service. The present Mrs Rees, therefore, had no connection whatever in this way with the deceased. I have this direct from Mr Rees himself. Mr Rees says that Kelly was born at Llanelly, and not at Limerick. Her father was a marine store dealer, and was a remarkably well informed and intelligent man. He was well known throughout the whole district from Carmarthen to Llanelly, and many people living there would be able to call him to mind. He was of an argumentative turn of mind; and Mr Rees says that his discussions with the late Dr Hopkins were quite often a treat to hear. His daughter, Mary Jane, was a remarkably fine girl. She left his service and went to Swansea, where she remained for some time. She will probably be remembered at the Unity, which she used to frequent. She seemed to gone on the loose at Swansea and to have removed to Cardiff, from whence she evertually went to London. Mr Rees was in London about six months ago, and met the deceased. She ran across the street and addressed him in Welsh. There were but little signs of dissipation upon her, and her appearance was calculated to create admiration on the part of anyone who saw her.

  • #2
    1881 Wales Census
    38 Halket Street, Llandaff
    Head: John Kelly aged 45 born Ireland - Marine store dealer
    Wife: Mary Kelly aged 45 born Ireland
    Children:
    Dennis aged 19 - Labourer
    John aged 12
    Daniel aged 11
    All born in Cardiff

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Chris!

      She could fit very well to "our" Mary Kelly.

      But how has she ended up being just one could-have-been in the long run?

      All the best
      Jukka
      "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting, Chris, as always!
        But the remark "all born in Cardiff" about the children seems strange, since Mary Jane would have been around 16 at the time the of the 1881 census, whereas Dennis was 19. That seems to rule out that Mary Jane was born in Ireland, only later to move to Wales, does it not?
        Thoroughly interesting and promising, though!

        The best,
        Fisherman

        Comment


        • #5
          I must point out that there was an article refuting this story published shortly afterwards
          I am trying to find it and will post
          I think the type of investigations carried out at the time are of interest in their own right, not only as a possible "lead"
          Regards
          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            Western Mail
            15 November 1888

            THE VICTIM'S CONNECTION WITH SWANSEA
            Mrs Jane Williams, landlady of the Unity Inn at Swansea, writes us denying the statement that the woman Kelly who used occasionally to visit her house is identical with the victim of the Whitechapel murder. The name of the former was Abigail, that of the latter Mary Jane. The first named married at Llanelly one Muir, a Scotch mason. Both emigrated to America and are now, or lately were, living in Kansas City with their two children.

            Comment


            • #7
              Having had a big go at 'finding Mary Kelly' myself, I have to say, it's a frustrating task, I think Chris S. would agree. You find a possible lead, only to have it scotched by a wrong detail, like wrong name for father or that she's still alive in 1891 or whatever.

              The most drawn-out thing was finding a Mary (Jane) Kelly marrying a Davis.

              One I did find was a Mary Kelly who married a Davis (I'll have to go back over what I went through) in Wales - I think it was around 1880. The reference number of the Kelly registration was different to the Davis registration, but only by one figure, e.g. Kelly said 1b 97 and the Davis one said 1b 98. These are not the actual numbers, by the way.

              I spent hours going through the marriage records and I'm sure I made notes. Is this a relevant find or do the numbers literally have to match?

              I've no doubt Chris that you may have already clocked this one.

              JB

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chris Scott View Post
                1881 Wales Census
                38 Halket Street, Llandaff
                Head: John Kelly aged 45 born Ireland - Marine store dealer
                Wife: Mary Kelly aged 45 born Ireland
                This is the same Kelly family traceable through several censuses from 1861 onwards - they had a daughter named Mary, born Ireland in c. 1855. She wasn't living with the family by 1871 - they had broken up somewhat - the father and two of his children relocating in Bedwellty, and at least two of the sisters in the Cardiff Union school (a number of the offspring of "broken" families were sent to such establishments).

                Mary (junior) possibly also turns up in the Cardiff Union School, albeit with her birth-town given as "Liverpool"; I'm pretty certain that two of John Kelly's daughters (from Halket Street, Llandaf) were listed alongside her, so this might be the same girl. When most of the family were reunited in Halket Street in 1881, Mary (junior) was still missing, and I've yet to trace her. Her brother, Dennis, appears in the 1891 census for the Glamorgan District Asylum as a lunatic soldier.

                I posted the full details here a little while back. It's an intriguing story, even if it isn't "our" Mary.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • #9
                  The numbers literally have to match.
                  Miss Marple

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK, I"ll bite. What murder was Mrs Rees up for?

                    As for finding Kelly, I wish we could. But I have an uneasy feeling her name wasn't 'Kelly'. It does seem to be one of those names that get handed round when people don't necessarily want their family to find them. Eddowes called herself 'Kelly' on occasion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by miss marple View Post
                      The numbers literally have to match.
                      I once knew a man named "Forty" and a girl named "Twoze". They never got together, which I always considered a crying shame. It strikes me that they missed out on a relationship of truly cosmic significance!
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Chava
                        I don't know what murder case was being referred to but will see if I can find any details
                        I also am convinced that the Millers Court victim was not named Mary Kelly by birth
                        I was more interested in these accounts to see the kind of inquiries that were carried out in Wales very shortly after the murder and what they came up with rather than hoping they would lead to THE Mary kelly, which I do not think they will do
                        Chris

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by miss marple View Post
                          The numbers literally have to match.
                          Miss Marple
                          Thought as much. Bum!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hello John!

                            Since I think, that "Mary Jane Kelly" was just a pseudonyme: I once found a match Mary F. from Dublin. Though there was just one troublesome thing...

                            All the best
                            Jukka
                            "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A mary marriage?

                              Gareth,
                              I was taken with the notion with your Halket St Kelly's that they had a daughter Mary who was born circa 1855 rather than 1864.
                              All the later variations of Kelly marrying Davies circa 1878/82 have not yelded a match, we have all searched those registers in vain looking for a match.
                              But the possibility of Mary being older, gave me the idea of looking further back and I found this.
                              It probably means nothing.
                              John Davies marries Mary Kelly Dec 1872 At Merthy T
                              I checked John Davies Deaths in the following quarter march 1873,
                              Two possible candidates at Merthy T John Davies age 29, John Davies age 22

                              I know there were hundreds of John Davies and the chances of one of those deaths matching to the marriage are remote. And I still believe Mary was in her twenties, but i am a bit freaked out as it is the only Kelly/ Davies union we have in Wales at the moment.
                              Regards Miss Marple

                              Comment

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