Kelly or Davies?

[Chava]

If Kelly was married, even for a short time, she would have taken her husband's name and it would be on all her documents, if she had any. So why isn't she presenting herself as 'Mary Jane Davies'?

If she's going with the 'I got married and my poor young husband died down the pit' story, why wouldn't she have kept his name as a pathetic reminder of the love she had lost and a useful way to tug at the heartstrings of sentimental punters.

If she didn't get married at all, and her single name was Kelly, she could still come up with some catastrophic event involving a young miner/steelworker/whatever called Kelly who she loved and lost.

But she says her married name was Davies, and her single name was Kelly, and she reverted to it after her husband died. This isn't a useful story for her. Because, if she loved her husband, she would have kept his name.

So I humbly submit that 'Mary Jane Kelly' was a nom de guerre, and we will never find her under that name.

[diana]

Another Possibility

MJK may have been born with a surname none of us have ever heard, married Davies and after her widowhood taken the surname of a subsequent lover or possibly even another husband named Kelly.

[Sam Flynn]

If Kelly was married, even for a short time, she would have taken her husband's name and it would be on all her documents, if she had any. So why isn't she presenting herself as 'Mary Jane Davies'?

I wouldn't read too much into it, Chava. It's not particularly unusual for someone to revert to a maiden name after a bereavement or a separation, and there's always the possibility of "common-law aliases", e.g. Catherine Eddowes occasionally went by the name of "Kate Conway", at other times "Kelly", and I daresay there are other examples.

[Chava]

Gareth, there are tons of examples! But if I were a bereaved widow living off men to keep body and soul together, you can bet I'd play that 'widowed at 18' card as often as possible! Either I'd use his name or I'd call him 'Kelly' or whatever. You see, whereas now it's common to either revert after a divorce, or never take your husband's name, back then it was unknown if you got married. So it would kind of beg the question 'why isn't your name Davies then?'

[ianincleveland]

Thats if she was a widow from Davies the miner.I have wondered did she leave him and run off first to Cardiff then to London,and call herself Kelly so he wouldnt trace her???

the lack of family coming forward tends to show to me she wasnt Mary Kelly at all and we wont ever know her true name as everyone in East London only knew her as Mary Kelly

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Ian!

And thinking about the thing, that Mary was the most common first-name of the Irish girls and Kelly the second most common last-name in Ireland...

And now, something from the victims presentation: "Joseph Barnett and Mrs. Carthy, a woman with whom she lived at one time, say that she came from a family that was "fairly well off" (Barnett) and "well to do people" (Carthy). Mrs. Carthy also states that Kelly was "an excellent scholar and an artist of no mean degree."

If this is true, then it's possible, that she picked her pseudonyme from an Irish pamphleteer "Eva", whose real name was known to be Mary Jane Kelly!

All the best
Jukka

[miss marple]

Don't get taken in by the blarney, Jukka. Mrs Carthy's statement sounds like a piece of propaganda.
There is an incredible degree of sentiment about Kelly. The eyes of the world were on the east end and they were going to show the world that beautiful Mary, was a lovely educated girl from a better class, who scarcely touched a drop, not a drunken virago who loved a good fight.
Unlike today when people love demolishing a person's character to the press, when they've died. The East Enders stuck together,it was them against the bad press of the world, praising up rather than down. Not one of the c5 has a drink problem, have you noticed, they were moderate drinkers according to their friends, even Barnett tried to sofen Mary's charactor, but he contrdicted himself a few times .
Miss Marple

[Chava]

Don't get taken in by the blarney, Jukka. Mrs Carthy's statement sounds like a piece of propaganda.
There is an incredible degree of sentiment about Kelly. The eyes of the world were on the east end and they were going to show the world that beautiful Mary, was a lovely educated girl from a better class, who scarcely touched a drop, not a drunken virago who loved a good fight.
Unlike today when people love demolishing a person's character to the press, when they've died. The East Enders stuck together,it was them against the bad press of the world, praising up rather than down. Not one of the c5 has a drink problem, have you noticed, they were moderate drinkers according to their friends, even Barnett tried to sofen Mary's charactor, but he contrdicted himself a few times .
Miss Marple

I absolutely agree! I'm tired of all the romancing done about Kelly. She sounds like a tough piece of goods who spent a bunch of time drunk. My guess is that just about everyone on this board would cross the road to avoid her if they saw her coming. But oh the sighs and cries for poor Mary Jane the downfallen angel!

[caz]

Hi Chava,

I entirely agree, but at the other extreme we have a growing band of dogmatic posters who insist on Mary being a woman who "done her man wrong" and handed him a nice, normal and - some would even say understandable motive for going into temporary emotional meltdown to destroy her black soul.

I'm not sure which extreme I find more distasteful, considering the lack of evidence for either poor downfallen angel or blackhearted devil.

Love,

Caz
X

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Chava,

I entirely agree, but at the other extreme we have a growing band of dogmatic posters who insist on Mary being a woman who "done her man wrong" and handed him a nice, normal and - some would even say understandable motive for going into temporary emotional meltdown to destroy her black soul.

I'm not sure which extreme I find more distasteful, considering the lack of evidence for either poor downfallen angel or blackhearted devil.

Love,




Caz
X

So true Caz-and so well put
Nats
xxx

[JSchmidt]

The problem with the attitude towards MJK is that we have little "objective" information about her. That makes it more easy to project whatever notion you fancy on her. Either way her ending is sad and tragic. No person should die in so gruesomely.