Kelly photo 1 enhanced - graphic

[perrymason]

Well then we agree my good man.....Im less sure than you are.

But enough for tonight for me.....Ive been sleeping until only 3am this past week, time for a book and bed.

All the best Sam

[Jay Batsford]

Is there any photo's of MJK in the morgue after she was cleaned up? it seems strange that other victims had ones done and not MJK?

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Jay,

We're lucky to have the photos we have. No doubt there were others - and not just of Kelly - that have gone missing over time.

[perrymason]

Is there any photo's of MJK in the morgue after she was cleaned up? it seems strange that other victims had ones done and not MJK?

Hi Jay,

My guess would be no, there probably wasnt. In part, because they "re-built" Mary as best they could, called a "Volte Face"...things like her arm which was almost severed would have been stitched in place. Pieces of her, large flesh sections, were stitched back on. They did this to be sure of what was missing. If you notice...the morgue shots are taken by either hanging the corpse from a nail....yes, awful ....or leaning the corpse up against a wall. I doubt that Marys stitched together remains could be either hung or leaned....and we do know the jurors were only shown her head.

Cheers Jay.

[harry]

Both Dr Gabe and Mcarthy,according to the extract from the Jamaican Gleaner,entered the room where Kelly lay.According to the doctor,the hair was tossed back,so perhaps it was the hair that Mcarthy was able to identify.It is said to have been bright ginger or red,a not too common colour,and together with the style or length,the most singular feature that allowed both Barnett and Mcarthy to testify the body was that of Kelly.

[perrymason]

Both Dr Gabe and Mcarthy,according to the extract from the Jamaican Gleaner,entered the room where Kelly lay.According to the doctor,the hair was tossed back,so perhaps it was the hair that Mcarthy was able to identify.It is said to have been bright ginger or red,a not too common colour,and together with the style or length,the most singular feature that allowed both Barnett and Mcarthy to testify the body was that of Kelly.

Hi Harry,

I believe thats likely spot on.....the hair would be one of the least or undamaged parts of her, and where not soaked by blood, might have been clearly identifiable to those close to her. But hair color can be created as well.

All the best Harry.

[just a curious lurker]

Yeah, I think it's a stocking too.

Hi,

What I find amazing is that you can actually see the stitches of the knitting quite clearly there. I don't know if there are any fellow knitters out there, (and that includes the men! ) but it looks like knit 2, purl 2 rib, at the top there, over where the knee is, changing to stocking stitch lower down, which is exactly what you would find in a knitted stocking of the time. (The ribbing is designed to make the top slightly more elastic to help keep it up.) If she wasn't wearing a stocking on that leg, (not the other one, which I think was bear) then she had very hairy legs.

I quite like the idea of the thickish 'black' line around it being a make shift garter of some kind, or as an alternative, it could be that her killer attempted to cut through the woollen stocking and found it was too much effort (knitted wool is notoriously hard to cut through with even a sharp knife) and decided to move further up the leg where it was an easier target.

The 'black' line there is consistent with a thin cut which would actually cut through the flesh underneath, but not cut through the thickness of the wool above. (Odd, I know, but have a go on an old wool sock and a piece of fruit! ) The blood from the wound below would seep into the wool above and look something like that.

I'd go for it being either that or a garter of some kind.

Sorry, I can't see any numbers or letters there. I suspect the circle might be a photographic artifact of some kind.

Hugs

Jane

xxxx

Hello all. I'm a newbie here, though I've lurked here on and off for long, long time. I'm a knitter, and I found a good picture of a knitted sock, and I would agree with Jane about there being a stocking on the left leg. Here are the images side by side. Be kind please.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello, just a curious lurker!

I will say; a very good could-be!

All the best
Jukka

[Sam Flynn]

Great socks! However, I think it's worth considering that the photograph seems to have been badly scratched in that region - so the "weave" might be merely an artefact, rather than any fabric in contact with Mary's calf.

[Stephen Thomas]

.....the photograph seems to have been badly scratched in that region .

Hi Sam

Scratched in a way but really the word is 'retouched'. The near leg on that photo would by optical necessity have been completely out of focus and a lot of this image, including the area between the legs which looks a bit like the Amazon jungle has had the negative retouched. This did involve scratching the film emulsion to produce dark areas and lines on the positive print rather in the way that artists use cross hatching in drawings to denote shading. If Kelly had been wearing the sort of men's sock shown earlier then it would easily be seen on the full body photos.

[Daveshredder]

Hi Gareth
Re. the ring on Kelly's leg near the camera on photo 2
Looking at this closely, (see below from original form of the photo) my immediate thought was that it looks as though some one has drawn this in pen on the photo, though why they might have wanted to highlight that area is not clear
Regards
Chris

Hi Im sorry if this is out of place, but its only my second post.
Im sure read in a book that the whole of the bottom mjk3 was painted on by a police artist years after the pic was taken. Just to give it some depth and perspective, also the bottom of the bed was pushed away from the wall to give access to the camerman, accounting for any angle confusions.

[babybird67]

thank you all

for the pictures and the information in this thread. It's a sad picture to look at, but such a lot of information to be had.

Am i imagining it or can i see her lips?

[Julian1066]

for the pictures and the information in this thread. It's a sad picture to look at, but such a lot of information to be had.

Am i imagining it or can i see her lips?

Babybird, not only do I see lips, but turning the photo so the face is configured as we generally see faces, the set of the mouth looks...well, peaceful. At rest. And it doesn't really go together with the butcher's shambles to me. That tells me she definitely met her death before the carnage got underway, as I believe everyone pretty much believes. Correct me if I'm wrong. Lower left hand corner of the face actually does look relatively unscathed, and the rest - well, it beggars description.

Lips? yes, I see them.

[Julian1066]

Speaking of that denuded femur...does it appear fractured above that horizontal line? It seems that there is a "bend" at the upper line of the femur, at least to me.

[Tenth Bell]

Hi folks... Hope all have had a good day. If you would please look on page three of this thread, at Mike Covell's second post down the page. What he says about the finger holes of what could be a scissor. Brace yourselves. Look closely. I think this is her heart guys, with the severed openings of the Great Vessels somewhat facing the direction of the photographer in MJK2. U know what all the reports say, of course, but ... just what if????
What if it was clandestinely removed before her body was taken out ... or what if, worse yet, it got bundled and tossed out with the horribly blood-soaked garments?? I can see a heart there. But perhaps my eyes are just involved in sordid trickery.