Lesbian tendencies?

[Celesta]

If this works then we should be able to see web definitions of "Graphic novel". So it appears to be a little more complex than a simple comic book.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...ition&ct=title

[emlodik]

Graphic novel, that is a euphemism for comic book, right? Maybe the reason more people on these boards haven't read it is because few of them are pre-teens.

Don.

Okay, that was a very ignorant, snotty, arrogant and pretentious statement. I'm nowhere near a comic cool reader and the only reason I decided to read "From Hell" was because it dealt with the Ripper. That cool is not even published in a regular comic cool format and the depressing, abstract black and white pencil sketch drawings are not what someone would usually find in a DC comic book. You just made a total pompous ass out me yourself, Don.

[Supe]

Celesta,

Thanks, but of the ten definitions offered eight of them only said that a graphic novel was a type of comic book . . . if it waddles and quacks, well it may be Scrooge McDuck and that's my kind of comic book--or graphic novel, if you please..

Don.

[emlodik]

Celesta,

Thanks, but of the ten definitions offered eight of them only said that a graphic novel was a type of comic book . . . if it waddles and quacks, well it may be Scrooge McDuck and that's my kind of comic book--or graphic novel, if you please..

Don.

Okay, let's approach this from another angle. What's wrong with a comic book format?

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Actually, the graphic novel is a very well written and researched piece of historical fiction. I'm surprised so few people on there forums have read it! As for it promoting the idiotic Crown Conspiracy, well, Alan Campbell says in the foreword that he only used that theory for story telling purposes and it is not to be taken seriously.

That is an idiotic thing to say.
If a book is based on the Royal Conspiracy, it certainly can't be well researched since the Royal Conspiracy in itself is a result of factual lies, fabrications and bad, fraudalent research.

Personally, I have nothing against comic books or graphic novels, but I prefer Tintin or old Carl Barks comics.
Not perverted comic book versions of Stephen Knights ideas where historical occurrences and real historical people are mistreated. Not to mention that it ceates misconceptions that some people may take as facts - and we all know that less eductated people unfortunately tend to believe that what is depicted about the Ripper in a commercial context often is taken at face value; just look at the impact the films have had.

All the best

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Here comes the exact quote from the Victims presentation of this site:

"...Barnett states at the inquest that he left her because she was allowing other prostitutes to stay in the room. "She would never have gone wrong again," he tells a newspaper, "and I shouldn't have left her if it had not been for the prostitutes stopping at the house. She only let them (stay there) because she was good hearted and did not like to refuse them shelter on cold bitter nights." He adds, "We lived comfortably until Marie allowed a prostitute named Julia to sleep in the same room; I objected: and as Mrs. Harvey afterwards came and stayed there, I left and took lodgings elsewhere."

The talks about Julia might intrigue some people's imagination. But it could also mean the following things;

1.Julia might have been a naturally-born trouble-maker.

2. She could have been on her way to insanity.

3. She could have had a long-advanced venerial disease with its side-effects.

4. She might have had her plans to run her own enterprise - so to say - in Miller's Court.

Anyway, mrs. Harvey, to my knowledge, was only looking for a stay for a few nights!

All the best
Jukka

[emlodik]

That is an idiotic thing to say.
If a book is based on the Royal Conspiracy, it certainly can't be well researched since the Royal Conspiracy in itself is a result of factual lies, fabrications and bad, fraudalent research.

Personally, I have nothing against comic books or graphic novels, but I prefer Tintin or old Carl Barks comics.
Not perverted comic book versions of Stephen Knights ideas where historical occurrences and real historical people are mistreated. Not to mention that it ceates misconceptions that some people may take as facts - and we all know that less eductated people unfortunately tend to believe that what is depicted about the Ripper in a commercial context often is taken at face value; just look at the impact the films have had.

All the best

Please don't twist my words. I said the book is well researched historical FICTION. Yes it uses a slightly revised take on the Royal Conspiracy and is filled outlandish moment that border on surreal and fantastical (Gull receiving visions of the future as he kills his victims,) HOWEVER, it is filled with some interesting historical re-enactments that make it interesting. There are bits with Katharine Eddows getting arrested on the eve of her murder, Annie Chapman fighting over a bar of soap, breaking her billbox... There's a scene where Mary Kelly and Joe Barnett fight, causing the window to smash... Mary Ann Nichols talks about robbing her former employers. It's little touches like that which make me appreciate the book, though it's severely flawed. The conspiracy theory is entertaining, but outlandish. The surrealist moments with Gull don't really add anything to the narrative and I'm quite sure residents of Whitechapel didn't spend most of their free time having hot sex.

By the way, in the book, Abberline is his correct age and stature and he never even meets Mary Kelly. (She also survives in the book when her "girlfriend" Julia is killed by mistake) Nor is he a psychic. That role is given to Lees, who turns out to be a fraud anyway towards the end of the story.

[Steve S]

I think...The Graphic Novel is the best researched FICTIONAL treatment of the story I've read...And I thought of them as 'comics' before I read it....
Steve

[emlodik]

I think...The Graphic Novel is the best researched FICTIONAL treatment of the story I've read...And I thought of them as 'comics' before I read it....
Steve

I just don't consider something is abstract, dark and stylised could be considered a "comic."

And yes, as I've been trying to explain for a while now, From Hell the book is the best researched of all Ripper fiction.

[Celesta]

Sorry, Em, I'm ignorant of graphic novels, and thought posting the definitions might be useful for those of us who are unfamiliar with them.

At any rate, your question was about MJK being a lesbian. I know that has been discussed here before. There was a discussion of prostitutes and lesbianism, if I recall correctly. You might find posts concerning that here and in the archives. I just don't remember what thread it was and whether it was prior to the crash.

[emlodik]

Sorry, Em, I'm ignorant of graphic novels, and thought posting the definitions might be useful for those of us who are unfamiliar with them.

At any rate, your question was about MJK being a lesbian. I know that has been discussed here before. There was a discussion of prostitutes and lesbianism, if I recall correctly. You might find posts concerning that here and in the archives. I just don't remember what thread it was and whether it was prior to the crash.

In any case, my question was pretty much answered. And I am sorry about the mess this thread had deteriorated into...

[Khanada]

In Defense Of Comics...

Graphic novel, that is a euphemism for comic book, right? Maybe the reason more people on these boards haven't read it is because few of them are pre-teens.

Since when must one be a "pre-teen" to read and enjoy comic books?

Mind, I am not half the comic book fan my other half is, but I do read and enjoy them. From Hell is just proof that any kind of story you can tell in a regular novel or on film, you can tell as a graphic novel or comic book -- they are not merely kiddie fare (see also, Marvel's recent adaptation of The Picture of Dorian Gray, which hardly seems something a pre-teen would be leaping to read). They're a legitimate art form just like a lot of other forms; one doesn't need to appreciate an art form to acknowledge that it is in fact an art form. (I don't like opera, but I wouldn't sniff and say that the reason more posters here aren't opera experts is because few of them are effete snobs... It's art. I just prefer to wear earplugs while it's going on.)

It's not like I exactly "live" in the local comic shop, but I can tell you this -- very few of the customers who come into the place are pre-teens. Primarily, one sees two groups -- college students (indicative of little but being in WVU's backyard), and men and women in their thirties and forties. Some of that is probably the sign on the wall stating that loose children will be given an espresso and a free kitten, but...

The other half is reading over my shoulder. He says to tell you that for those who are willing to hold an open mind on comics to seek out a book called Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud, wherein he discusses the history of that very art form, including its roots in such things as panelled wood carvings and Egyptian hieroglyphics.

In closing, there are probably things you have an appreciation for that I wouldn't "get" either, and there's nothing wrong with that.

(And, no, actually the other half and I do not think that a crucifix in pee is "art". Well, maybe if the title had been, Is It Wine Yet?... )

[Khanada]

Personally, I have nothing against comic books or graphic novels, but I prefer Tintin or old Carl Barks comics.
Not perverted comic book versions of Stephen Knights ideas where historical occurrences and real historical people are mistreated. Not to mention that it ceates misconceptions that some people may take as facts - and we all know that less eductated people unfortunately tend to believe that what is depicted about the Ripper in a commercial context often is taken at face value; just look at the impact the films have had.

I don't know about anyone else, but for myself, since I am smart enough to tell immediately that things like From Hell are clearly fiction and nothing-but, I really have no patience for the idea that everything basically has to be dumbed-down for the masses, lest one of them mistake fiction for fact.

If you wish to just dismiss From Hell as a "perverted comic book", that's your choice, but I also find it very enjoyable (semi)historical fiction. If someone's actually unable to distinguish between it (or the movie) and the facts of the case, that's very sad and unfortunate, but I am just arrogant enough to say that I shouldn't have to arrange my amusements around their lack of IQ points. (I liked that Pearl Harbor movie, too, but I know it's far from a documentary...if some people don't, they just need to go read something.)

Personally, I think poorly researched books that are put out there as fact are a lot more damaging -- and there are dozens of those on the Ripper murders alone, let alone how many other events in history.

[Sam Flynn]

I think poorly researched books that are put out there as fact are a lot more damaging -- and there are dozens of those on the Ripper murders alone, let alone how many other events in history.

A very good and valid point.