So was she really Irish or Welsh?

[ianincleveland]

I think she was Irish but picked up the welsh language from moving to wales as a very young child.she maybe also had traces of a Welsh accent for the same reasons.i speak with an East cleveland/Teesside/north yorkshire accent but most of the older generation of my family were Lancastrian so i have a few Lancashire phrases etc in my accent despite having never lived there.So its reasonable to assume that Kelly living in Wales had some knowledge of Welsh and the odd phrase of Welsh in her accent.She was even apparently married to a Welshman after all.


Southern irish with a slight Welsh lint...bet she sounded rather nice:

[Graham]

I was born in Birmingham in 1946 but by about 1960 had learned to speak reasonable English.

Graham

[j.r-ahde]

Hello ianincleveland!

If Peter Birchwood found a match with the Kelly family living in 2 William Street, Carnarvon, I am shooah, that in that case she had even some US bostonian in her accent...

The thing with this would be, as always with MJK, that she mixed her tracks so skilfully, that no-one knows for sure, when she was speaking the truth.

But since she was living with a lot of Irish originating people, for example Joe Barnett and mr. McCarthy, they probably would have noticed at least to some extent a phoney-Iirish...

All the best
Jukka

[Graham]

Didn't someone who knew Kelly claim that she could speak fluent Welsh? (on the other hand, how would a non-Welsh speaker know that it was fluent??)

In the 1970's and 1980's my business took me to many of the (now defunct) foundries and steelworks in South Wales, and as I recall there were plenty of Irish names amongst the people I met. I remember a bloke called O'Dowd in Ebbw Vale whose Welsh accent was almost undecipherable to me.

Graham

[Simon Wood]

Hi Graham,

The story about Mary Kelly speaking fluent Welsh has about as much value as this—

Charles Preston—"She [Elizabeth Stride] apparently spoke Swedish fluently to people who came into the lodging-house."

Note the word "apparently".

Regards,

Simon

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

The story about Mary Kelly speaking fluent Welsh has about as much value as this—

Charles Preston—"She [Elizabeth Stride] apparently spoke Swedish fluently to people who came into the lodging-house."

Note the word "apparently".

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

Yeah, well, you know what people are like....I just wish I could remember where I read that bit of info about MJK speaking Welsh.

Yet as Stride was definitely Swedish, then maybe she did speak in her native language from time to time, whether or not anyone could understand her, especially after she'd had a few.

Cheers,

Graham

[Simon Wood]

Hi Graham,

Elizabeth Stride definitely Swedish?

I am currently pursuing a line of enquiry which suggests that she was nothing of the sort.

Regards,

Simon

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

Elizabeth Stride definitely Swedish?

I am currently pursuing a line of enquiry which suggests that she was nothing of the sort.

Regards,

Simon

Er...every JtR author I've ever read has accepted that she was Swedish. The A-Z quotes the names of her parents and her place of birth, and I believe the A-Z. What makes you think she wasn't Swedish? And if she wasn't, where do you think she came from?

Cheers,

Graham

[Simon Wood]

Hi Graham,

A provable link cannot be forged between Elisabeth Gustafsdotter [b.1843], Elizabeth Gustifson [m. 1869] and Elizabeth Stride [d.1888].

"Accepting" something is a poor substitute for knowing it to be true.

Regards,

Simon

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

A provable link cannot be forged between Elisabeth Gustafsdotter [b.1843], Elizabeth Gustifson [m. 1869] and Elizabeth Stride [d.1888].

"Accepting" something is a poor substitute for knowing it to be true.

Regards,

Simon

How do I know who you say you are?

Graham

[ianincleveland]

Every book or article ive ever read shows Stride was Swedish and theres a fair bit of family background too and indeed shes shown as having joined the Swedish church in London by July 1866 and actually to have received some kind of financial help from them in 1886.This would all suggest she was very definetly Swedish

[Graham]

Every book or article ive ever read shows Stride was Swedish and theres a fair bit of family background too and indeed shes shown as having joined the Swedish church in London by July 1866 and actually to have received some kind of financial help from them in 1886.This would all suggest she was very definetly Swedish

I'd go along with that, Ian.

Cheers,

Graham

[Simon Wood]

Hi Ian,

It sure suggests that someone was Swedish.

Hi Graham,

How do you know who I say I am?

Let me count the ways.

I can offer you [a] my birth certificate, [b] marriage certificate, [c] driving license, [d] tax returns, [e] US Immigration file, plus a ton of other stuff [some with an ugly photograph].

And if that's not enough to convince you who I am, why are you so eager to accept that Elizabeth Stride was Swedish on the basis of no evidence at all?

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

Yeah, well, you know what people are like....I just wish I could remember where I read that bit of info about MJK speaking Welsh.

I believe it was in the Western Mail, Graham - which, given its modern status as the "National Paper of Wales" might, even in 1888, have had its own reasons for latching onto that nugget of information. I don't think it was carried by any other newspaper.

Personally, I have my doubts. Irish families settling in Wales during the 19th Century rarely assimilated to the point of acquiring the lingo, even after several generations.

[Sam Flynn]

And if that's not enough to convince you who I am, why are you so eager to accept that Elizabeth Stride was Swedish on the basis of no evidence at all?

It's hardly "no evidence at all", though, Simon. Was not testimony as to her Swedish origins put forward by Sven Olsson of the Swedish Church? I think he might have been equipped to spot a "Shamdinavian" when he met one.

In truth, we have no less "evidence" of Stride's pedigree than of Sir Melville Macnaghten, Lewis Carroll or Queen Victoria. They might be better-documented, but all that really remains of them is what's held on film, in books and in 3rd-party accounts of their lives.