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So what happened to that femur...?

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  • So what happened to that femur...?

    I was walking my dog today when something suddenly struck me. As I got home, I took a look at the Kelly photo, especially the femur of her right thigh. I´ve seen that picture a thousand times, as most of us out here will have done. But I have not before reflected over this question, and I think I may need a medico or a butcher or suchlike to help me out with the answer to it:
    Why is that femur totally white?
    Should there not be blood on it?
    Or attaching pieces of flesh, of sinew or something like that?
    What does it take to make it look the way it does?
    Is it a likely outcome of somebody just cutting flesh away in a frenzied manner, or is it more of a painstaking job that lies behind it?

    Any takers?

  • #2
    Defleshed bones are white, or at least whiter than their surroundings; check this out next time you buy a leg of lamb or beef.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

    Comment


    • #3
      A Grade 3 muscle tear is either a very deep muscle tear or a complete tear. Each end springs towards the tendon, revealing bone in the middle.

      Tendons are quite white and can be mistaken for bones.

      Red flesh, such muscles, don't penetrate bone. It just encases bone.

      Bones exposed through wounds can appear quite white. Be it a jawbone from wisdom tooth extraction, an exposed rib from a knife wound, or a finger tendon and bone.

      MJK, like the other C5 were also exsanguinated. Meaning blood from the body was mostly displaced through their necks by action of the heart pumping the blood out until there is organ failure. Meaning, less blood in the body was present during and after mutilations.
      Bona fide canonical and then some.

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      • #4
        Thanks to both of you! A few more questions:
        How easy or hard is it to deflesh a bone the way it is done on Kelly? It seems to me that there is no meat left on the bone at all; is that an expected outcome from a frenzied knife attack, of must the killer have made an effort to deflesh it entirely?
        I take the point about exsanguination on board, but I note how face and ribcage seems to have been very bloodied and had flesh attaching. Is the femur encased in some sort of sheath that can easily be peeled off, like the skin of a banana or something like that?
        Are we looking at the bone itself, or at a tendon? Is that what Batman suggests? I seem to remember that it has been suggested before that it is not the actual femur, I think it was Karyo Magellan who said something such.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
          Thanks to both of you! A few more questions:
          How easy or hard is it to deflesh a bone the way it is done on Kelly? It seems to me that there is no meat left on the bone at all; is that an expected outcome from a frenzied knife attack, of must the killer have made an effort to deflesh it entirely?
          I take the point about exsanguination on board, but I note how face and ribcage seems to have been very bloodied and had flesh attaching. Is the femur encased in some sort of sheath that can easily be peeled off, like the skin of a banana or something like that?
          Are we looking at the bone itself, or at a tendon? Is that what Batman suggests? I seem to remember that it has been suggested before that it is not the actual femur, I think it was Karyo Magellan who said something such.
          to me he seems to have flayed the flesh down to the bone and took care to actually make sure his knife was up against the bone as the final cut. It almost looks like he scraped the bone clean as he did so.
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • #6
            Open bone breaks with the bone exposed are quite white. There are no major attachments along most bones except for their ends with tendons. That's why with an open break just the bone penetrates to the outside with nothing attached to it. Should look like a white stick.
            Bona fide canonical and then some.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Batman View Post
              There are no major attachments along most bones except for their ends with tendons. That's why with an open break just the bone penetrates to the outside with nothing attached to it. Should look like a white stick.
              Correct, and the muscles themselves are bounded by sheaths; it's not as if they're "stuck" to the femur along its entire length. It wouldn't have taken much effort to get Kelly's leg looking like that.
              Last edited by Sam Flynn; 11-15-2018, 11:14 AM.
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                Are we looking at the bone itself, or at a tendon? Is that what Batman suggests? I seem to remember that it has been suggested before that it is not the actual femur, I think it was Karyo Magellan who said something such.
                Yes, it's the bone, Fish. I think it was Magellan who suggested that it wasn't the femur, but he was wrong.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Batman View Post
                  Open bone breaks with the bone exposed are quite white. There are no major attachments along most bones except for their ends with tendons. That's why with an open break just the bone penetrates to the outside with nothing attached to it. Should look like a white stick.
                  But then again, it does not when we look at pictures of wolf prey, for example. There may be exceptions, of course, but many of the pictures of wolves devouring prey exhibit red bones with meat attaching to them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    Correct, and the muscles themselves are bounded by sheaths; it's not as if they're "stuck" to the femur along its entire length. It wouldn't have taken much effort to get Kelly's leg looking like that.
                    But it would have taken an effort, right? We are not looking at something that is coincidental, but instead the result of a conscious removing of all flesh, blood and sinews and such?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Are any of the participants in this debate medically schooled? I think Gareth has a degree in psychology (which is not à point to this debate, I believe) but how about Batman?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                        But it would have taken an effort, right? We are not looking at something that is coincidental, but instead the result of a conscious removing of all flesh, blood and sinews and such?
                        Indeed, that's not by accident, but it's not necessarily much of a "design" either. He might just have decided to "fillet" her thighs on a whim.
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                          Are any of the participants in this debate medically schooled? I think Gareth has a degree in psychology (which is not à point to this debate, I believe) but how about Batman?
                          Biology was my favourite subject at secondary school and long before then, having read all my great-grandfather's medical books from an early age. I gained an A grade at both "O" and "A" level without even revising. I also took subsidiary modules in physiology and anatomy as part of my degree.

                          That is Kelly's exposed femur in that photograph, and Karyo Magellan's suggestion was wrong.
                          Last edited by Sam Flynn; 11-15-2018, 11:38 AM.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                            Indeed, that's not by accident, but it's not necessarily much of a "design" either. He might just have decided to "fillet" her thighs on a whim.
                            I find that what one does has often an underlying reason, Gareth. It may n ot have been one he carried into the room, it may have suggested itself later on and thus have been "a whim" to an extent - but it is in line with how I see the rest of her damage. If it had been sloppier done, I may have felt less inclined to see a purpose, but since it is shining white and spotless with no meat on it whatsoever, I´m fine with accepting that it fits the pattern I identify.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Biology was my favourite subject at secondary school and long before then, having read all my great-grandfather's medical books from an early age. I gained an A grade at both "O" and "A" level without even revising. I also took subsidiary modules in physiology and anatomy as part of my degree.

                              That is Kelly's exposed femur in that photograph, and Karyo Magellan's suggestion was wrong.
                              Thanks for that, Gareth - still hoping that perhaps Paul would be reading this and having a little to say about it!

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