If Mrs. Maxwell Didn't See Mary Who Did She See?

[Jon Guy]

So Dr Gabe, Supt Arnold, and DI Reid all made it up then when they accounted for the heart not being missing? and with Reid he is a main primary source.

No, Arnold and Reid were probably mistaken. Arnold mixed up details of the Mitre Sq and Millers Court murders, and Reid mixed up McKenzie and Chapman details, and Dr Gabe stated in the press that a certain organ was missing .

[Michael W Richards]

You have just made that up !!!!!!!

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Actually its founded in this snippet from the Irish Times on the 10th;

"Previous to the post-mortem examination, a photographer, who was brought on the scene only after considerable difficulty and delay, was set to work, with a view to obtaining permanent evidence as to the state of the room, the condition of the body, and other points, trivial perhaps, but possibly important, which have heretofore been too much neglected in the investigation of the series of crimes of which to-day's horror is surely the climax. The state of the atmosphere was unfortunately not favourable to good results. A slight drizzling rain was falling, the air was dusky, even in the open thoroughfare, and in the little court it was at times almost dark, especially inside the miserable houses. The photographer, however, did his best, and succeeded in securing several negatives, which he hopes will be useful. The post-mortem examination lasted just two hours, and was of the most thorough character. Every indication as to the manner in which the murderer conducted his awful work was carefully noted, as well as the position of every organ and the larger pieces of flesh. The surgeon's report will, in consequence, be of an unusually exhaustive character, but it will not be made public until the surgeons give their evidence at the coroner's inquest Sufficient is known to place the crime beyond doubt in the same category as those perpetrated in George Yard, Buck's row, Berner street, Hanbury street and Mitre square. "

I suggested they knew what was missing Friday afternoon by virtue of the fact that a very "thorough" examination of the deceased and the room was done on Friday.

[Darryl Kenyon]

We know that the police offered a pardon to anyone but the actual murderer on the 10th. If the police suspected someone of shielding the murderer [as Anderson indicates] and that person came forward, say the suspect's brother, and the police then raided the suspect's premises and found the missing heart, well damning evidence indeed. But the police might have surmised if it was general knowledge that the heart had been taken by the killer, he might just get rid of the missing organ sharpish.

[Abby Normal]

You do realize that if the authorities declared the heart to be missing they risk repeating a second fiasco like the kidney episode. Pranksters now begin mailing boxed hearts to the press.
It is not an important detail to share with the public. The authorities said nothing on the subject.
What we read in the press is all conjecture.

thats actually a great point-never though about that before.

[Abby Normal]

We know that the police offered a pardon to anyone but the actual murderer on the 10th. If the police suspected someone of shielding the murderer [as Anderson indicates] and that person came forward, say the suspect's brother, and the police then raided the suspect's premises and found the missing heart, well damning evidence indeed. But the police might have surmised if it was general knowledge that the heart had been taken by the killer, he might just get rid of the missing organ sharpish.

yup-another great point.

[Trevor Marriott]

No, Arnold and Reid were probably mistaken. Arnold mixed up details of the Mitre Sq and Millers Court murders, and Reid mixed up McKenzie and Chapman details, and Dr Gabe stated in the press that a certain organ was missing .

Come on Jon, probably mistaken ! Give these highly experienced and well thought of men some credit.

I detect a sign of panic with some on here now, as the old original accepted theory surrounding the heart slowly slips away.

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[Trevor Marriott]

We know that the police offered a pardon to anyone but the actual murderer on the 10th. If the police suspected someone of shielding the murderer [as Anderson indicates] and that person came forward, say the suspect's brother, and the police then raided the suspect's premises and found the missing heart, well damning evidence indeed. But the police might have surmised if it was general knowledge that the heart had been taken by the killer, he might just get rid of the missing organ sharpish.

Its all conjecture, and besides senior police officers stated that all organs were accounted for, and that was right up to 1896.

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[Jon Guy]

Come on Jon, probably mistaken ! Give these highly experienced and well thought of men some credit.

Only mistaken with their recollections. You know that Arnold mixed up the Kelly and Eddowes murders, and Reid recalled coins being found under Annie Chapman`s body.

In the Manchester Times 10th Nov 88, Dr Gabe is stated as saying that a certain organ was missing.

I detect a sign of panic

Stay calm, Trev, stay calm.

[Abby Normal]

Come on Jon, probably mistaken ! Give these highly experienced and well thought of men some credit.

I detect a sign of panic with some on here now, as the old original accepted theory surrounding the heart slowly slips away.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

should we also give them credit for there obvious mistakes that Jon just pointed out too? good grief.

[Trevor Marriott]

Only mistaken with their recollections. You know that Arnold mixed up the Kelly and Eddowes murders, and Reid recalled coins being found under Annie Chapman`s body.

In the Manchester Times 10th Nov 88, Dr Gabe is stated as saying that a certain organ was missing.



Stay calm, Trev, stay calm.

I have never been calmer ! I feel like a poker player holding 4 aces ����

But I am not solely relying on secondary newspaper sources.We have a primary source in Reid in 1896. He is corroborated by other primary newspaper sourcesfrom 1888

Add to that the fact that there is nothing recorded in any official police document or any police officers memoirs that shows the heart was missing especially as some go to great length to discuss the murders.

You can nit pick the reports all day long but it is not going to change the fact that Bonds ambiguous statement is sufficient in its true form to be able to say that the heart was taken away by the killer.

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[Jon Guy]

You can nit pick the reports all day long but it is not going to change the fact that Bonds ambiguous statement is sufficient in its true form to be able to say that the heart was taken away by the killer.

Finally !!!

[Sam Flynn]

...Bonds ambiguous statement is sufficient in its true form to be able to say that the heart was taken away by the killer.

Are you sure that's what you meant to say, Trev?

[Kattrup]

You can nit pick the reports all day long but it is not going to change the fact that Bonds ambiguous statement is sufficient in its true form to be able to say that the heart was taken away by the killer.

Well said, Trevor. Those crazy conspiracy theorist can argue all they want, but we stand on firm, sourcebased ground.

[Trevor Marriott]

Finally !!!

I missed a word about should read "not taken away"

calm down, calm down

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[Trevor Marriott]

Are you sure that's what you meant to say, Trev?

No I missed a word out I like you suffer from having to use a mobile phone at times

I missed a word about should read "not taken away" but it was good to see the smiling faces again who thought they had been victorious

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