Mary Kellys husband

[erobitha]

Also, if you can find a copy of the late Chris Scott's Will the Real Mary Kelly...?, it's a gem. I'm sure there are ongoing attempts to further this research, but I'm not up to speed. There was a James Davies, 18, who died at the Risca colliery on 16th July, 1880. He's probably been looked into and ruled out, but that's just another example.

He definitely has not been ruled out by me.

[mpriestnall]

Kelly born in Ruritania and moved as a young child to Loompaland where her husband was swallowed by a whale.

[Jurriaan Maessen]

Just for the record: there have been some mentions of and research on this particular John Davies on Casebook and JTR Forums before, though not very extensively. As CallmeBill stated two posts back the adress of this John Davies was published in a summery of the inquest account of the explosion (https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3387680/3387682/16/) published in the Cardiff Times on 10th September 1881. The deceased collier John Davies resided at 18 Lewis Street, Dowlais, the 1881 census record of which indeed lists John living at this address with his wife Margaret (23) and two children as well as an additional pair of lodgers from Ireland.



Although I was unable to find a marriage record, either in Carmarthenshire (where John was born) or Dowlais (where they resided in 1881), I'm pretty certain that I found Margaret (John Davies' widow, born Dowlais) in the 1891 census, living on 8 Spring Street in Dowlais as widowed daughter of Mary Herbert (also widow).



In the 1891 Dowlais census Margaret is exactly 10 years older than in the 1881 census, as is her son David Davies, who was 5 months in the 1881 census (now listed as 10 years old in the 1891 one). Margarets maiden name , we may conclude, was Herbert and she was alive and well in 1891, so I'm afraid this John Davies and his poor widow are yet another blind alley in our search for Mary Jane Kelly.

[miss marple]

That will be Castletown Limerick.

miss marple

[Callmebill]

Mary

Apologies in advance, i'm writing on my phone - need a telescope.
Anyway, tidying my files and I came across research on Mary and I Googled Mary Kelly with Cwybargoed - of course I landed on this site.
Read through this whole thread. John Davies who died in 1881 and born 1855:
On my notes I have his address it's 18 Lewis Street from the inquiry into his death. At that address he is listed as born Llandovery, ...Carmarthenshire. His wife was called Margaret and was 23 when he died.
They had two boys, David and Howell who isn't living with his mother in the 1891 census not too sure of David. In the house are two Irish lodgers one of which comes from Catletown...limerick.
Cymbargoed also had an ironworks but it's also close to Cardiff.
Just one more snippet in my notes I've written. Margaret Leyshon - 7 brothers-Henry , a sister and a father called John - nothing ekse on it and that info I must have dumped for some reason.
Lastly there's a John Sheen working at the ironworks, that name's familiar to people studying Pearly.
That's it I think. Still that's only the first folder sorted ...

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Flower and Dean!


Well, if we suppose Mary was using 'Mary Jane Kelly' as a pseudonyme - probably I am not the only one here thinking like that! - it is bloody hard to track down her Irish and Welsh life.

It doesn't make the task easier either, that there were obviously many other Mary Kellies in the East End too at the time.

All the best
Jukka

[SuspectZero]

Apologies if this has been brought up before
Name: John Davies
Birth Year: abt 1855
Event Type: Death
Event Year: 1881
Death Age: 26
Death Date: 29 Aug 1881
Death Place: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Occupation: Collier
Colliery: Bargoed Longwork
Owner: Dowlais Iron Co
Notes: Killed by an explosion of firedamp.



I note that he was a collier and died in an explosion in Wales as MJK said her husband did to Joe Barnett. Also if she did marry when she was sixteen as she said, 1889, and lived with him for two or three years before he died then it would be around the right time. She would have been 18 at the time, so 26 might be a tad too old for her husband, him being 23 or 4 when they married, but not out of the question. Again apologies if anyone else as posted this info before.

Nope. Not your guy. This has been searched for years...
Name: John Davies
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine Davies
Gender: Male
Where born: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Aberdare
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 87 Wind St Four ... Inn
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Collier & Innkeeper
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5323
Folio: 11
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
John Davies 26
Catherine Davies 23
Llewellyn Davies

[MysterySinger]

deleted

[Bridewell]

They are rather far in Welsh terms, though - about 70 miles... yikes!

However, Dowlais and Merthyer are both only about 15 miles from Cwmavon (in the Borough of Torfaen), which is what I suspect Mary Kelly may have said, and which Joe Barnett misheard as "Carmarthen" or "Caernarvon". All three are pronounced similarly by folks from South Wales (C'maah-vun, C'maah-thun ["th" as in "the"] and C'naah-vun).

Very interesting stuff. Clearly the occupants of this area need closer scrutiny.

[Bridewell]

Apologies if this has been brought up before
Name: John Davies
Birth Year: abt 1855
Event Type: Death
Event Year: 1881
Death Age: 26
Death Date: 29 Aug 1881
Death Place: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Occupation: Collier
Colliery: Bargoed Longwork
Owner: Dowlais Iron Co
Notes: Killed by an explosion of firedamp.



I note that he was a collier and died in an explosion in Wales as MJK said her husband did to Joe Barnett. Also if she did marry when she was sixteen as she said, 1889, and lived with him for two or three years before he died then it would be around the right time. She would have been 18 at the time, so 26 might be a tad too old for her husband, him being 23 or 4 when they married, but not out of the question. Again apologies if anyone else as posted this info before.

This is interesting because a couple of weeks ago I was in PM conversation with Caz about a Mary Davis whose father was a Foreman in an Iron Works in the 1891 census. This family was from Dowlais too, though the father's name was David, not John.

[Flower and Dean]

I tried looking for MJK's husband a while ago too and found the Davies who married a Mary Jarman. I don't think that's them, even if Jarman's age would fit. Jarman doesn't seem to be an especially Irish last name and it seems too specific and unusual for an alias.

[Wickerman]

It's considerably nearer to Cardiff too, for that part of her story.
The Cardiff infirmary records might have had a Jarman listed, not a Davies. Chris Scott looked for a Davis/Davies, if I'm not mistaken.

[Sam Flynn]

Finally Dowlais and Merthyr Tydfil, although not in Carmarthenshire are not too far away either

They are rather far in Welsh terms, though - about 70 miles... yikes!

However, Dowlais and Merthyer are both only about 15 miles from Cwmavon (in the Borough of Torfaen), which is what I suspect Mary Kelly may have said, and which Joe Barnett misheard as "Carmarthen" or "Caernarvon". All three are pronounced similarly by folks from South Wales (C'maah-vun, C'maah-thun ["th" as in "the"] and C'naah-vun).

[Darryl Kenyon]

Thanks Paul Will catch up on the article

[PaulWilliams]

Hi Darryl,

Some time ago I went through all the marriages of Mary Kelly or close derivatives in Wales during the relevant period. My findings were summarised in an article in Ripperologist 149.
This Mary Kelly married Michael Flynn, a 36 year-old farm labourer on 17 June 1878. Mary was aged 30, and her father was a tailor called Daniel. Both the married couple were illiterate. I found an entry in the 1861 census that probably related to her living in Neath, and discounted her as the Ripper victim on the grounds of age.
Best wishes,
Paul