Mary's right arm...

[richardh]

There is a dissertation on the casebook called Did Kelly Have a Heart?
by Dave Yost.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-yostheart.html

It contained something that I have seen and had to correct on these forums and I want to correct this misinformation/misunderstanding. it is regarding the assumption that Mary's right arm was partially severed and it is to do with the incorrect understanding of the word 'abducted' used in Dr. Bonds autopsy report.

From the dissertation:

the right arm lay across the body with the right hand in the abdominal cavity; the left arm was partly removed from the body and lay on the bed, it was bent at the elbow and the fingers were clenched;

Firstly, the quote above has the left and right arms mixed up (which should be corrected to avoid confusion IMO).

Anyway, the issue here is the assertion that the arm was 'partly removed'. If the author has based this assertion on Dr. Bond's report and in particular the quote (in Bond's autopsy report) that "...the right arm was slightly abducted from the body" then he has misunderstood what the term 'abducted' means. IF there is a data source (yes I've been reading Pierre's posts) that is reliable and states that the right arm was partly severed then I apologise to the author and hope you can point me in the direction of the reliable source.
But I think I'm correct that the arm was not partially severed (nor indeed was there an attempt to amputate the arm by the killer)

For the record, Dr. Bond used the correct and proper medical terminology to describe that the right arm's POSITION (in relation to the trunk) was simply moved slightly away from the body - that is it was not tight against Mary's body unlike the left arm which was "close to the body".
Abducted is used to describe the position of a limb from the midline (centre line) of the body (trunk).

Abduction: The movement of a limb away from the midline of the body. The opposite of abduction is adduction.

It does not mean dismembered or 'cut away' and Bond was using correct and accurate terminology which would be read by other medics and law officials who readily understand the medical parlance.

So, in the absence of any reliable source that states the contrary, Mary's right arm was in no way severed or partly severed from her body (and neither was her left for that matter).

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Richard,
While I agree with you about Bond's report meaning the arm is positioned slightly away from the body, I'm sure there are rnewspaper reports that it was partly severed, too.
For example, the Echo 10th Nov says;
"In addition to the various mutilations thus described, one arm was almost severed from the trunk"

I wondered if the reporter had seen Bond's notes and misunderstood them, but this was published the same day as the post-mortem exam took place, so it seems unlikely, unless he got a sneak preview.

[DJA]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abduction

[richardh]

I think if the right arm had been mutilated to such an extent then Bond would have stated as much in specific medical terminology. The fact that he used the specific term Abducted in his report tells me the exact condition and position of the right arm. That is it suffered cuts to the skin and was positioned away from Mary's side with elbow bent and palm up. He didn't report partial severing of the arms so there was none.

The news paper report is not a reliable source IMO

[Joshua Rogan]

Apologies, the Echo report was from the day of the 'reconstruction', and the day after Bond's report would have been written. So they quite possibly could have read it, and possibly misunderstood the term abducted.
Bond's only description of the arm wounds (unless I've missed any) are;

"the arms mutilated by several jagged wounds"
"Both arms & forearms had extensive & jagged wounds."

Pure speculation, of course, but who's to say that an eyewitness untrained in medical matters wouldn't describe an arm with such wounds as almost severed? But yes, safer to assume these were 'mere flesh wounds' since Bond doesn't go into any greater detail.

Incidentally, it's probably just my eyes but does anyone else see her right arm between the bedclothes and the partition wall in MJK2? I know it doesn't match the description given by Bond, but I can't help seeing it anyway.

[richardh]

You mean the object that looks like a dolphin's head on its side? Yes, I thought that too but the report states pretty much the exact position of the right arm which was only slightly away from the body. The only issue I have with the position of the right arm (as described in the report) is which way the elbow was bent, toward the body or away? The natural resting position of an arm, when lying on your back with your arm supine (palm facing up) is for the elbow to be bent away from the body (abducted more than the humerus). But it is possible for the arm to come to rest with the forearm bent toward the body (adduction) and if this was the case with Mary then I think we can see her right-hand fingers/thumb in the photo peeking out from below the right femur (at the femoral head position).

[kjab3112]

The anatomical positions in Bonds report are highly likely to be accurate. In the case of the shoulder joint, abduction is movement of the upper arm away from the trunk, adduction the opposite. Flexion is forward movement of the upper arm with extension the opposite. To imagine rotation, bend (flex) the elbow and with your elbow against the chest turning the hand over the chest is internal rotation and away is external rotation. It must be remembered that each of these anatomical movements is subtly different at each joint (not necessarily the whole limb)

Hope of help

Paul

[richardh]

"...the elbow bent & the forearm supine with the fingers clenched."

But there is no indication of which way the elbow was bent - away from the trunk or toward. The NATURAL position - how the arm would position if you just flopped onto a bed - would be for the elbow to bend AWAY from your body. But it is possible (although awkward) to position the forearm toward the body.

I think that the former is the case with Mary's position because it seems likely that she was killed on the right side of the bed and then manhandled across to the left side causing her right arm abduction as per Bond's report.