What's in a name?

[Joshua Rogan]

Going through early press reports of the Miller's Court murder, I'm struck by the variations on the victim's name. Most of the U.K. press do call her Mary Jane Kelly, a couple (Times, Evening News) also carrying (possibly earlier) stories calling he Mary Ann Kelly.
Several American papers get her name right, but these are all basically the same story (possibly sourced from the Pall Mall Gazette).
But another group (again, basically the same story) say she was known as "Mary Jane" but her real name was Lizzie Fisher! As many of you will know, Lizzie Fisher was also thought to be the name of a torso murder victim in 1889, before being identified as Liz Jackson.

Another handful report her name as Mary Jane Lawrence, one later amending this to Mary Jane McCarthy.

Does anyone know the source of these alternate names?

[Fisherman]

Going through early press reports of the Miller's Court murder, I'm struck by the variations on the victim's name. Most of the U.K. press do call her Mary Jane Kelly, a couple (Times, Evening News) also carrying (possibly earlier) stories calling he Mary Ann Kelly.
Several American papers get her name right, but these are all basically the same story (possibly sourced from the Pall Mall Gazette).
But another group (again, basically the same story) say she was known as "Mary Jane" but her real name was Lizzie Fisher! As many of you will know, Lizzie Fisher was also thought to be the name of a torso murder victim in 1889, before being identified as Liz Jackson.

Another handful report her name as Mary Jane Lawrence, one later amending this to Mary Jane McCarthy.

Does anyone know the source of these alternate names?

Donīt forget that Catherine Eddowes had two sisters, on of whom was named Elizabeth Fisher. Sounds to me as if she could go by the name of Lizzie Fisher too...

[jerryd]

Donīt forget that Catherine Eddowes had two sisters, on of whom was named Elizabeth Fisher. Sounds to me as if she could go by the name of Lizzie Fisher too...

Not that it is relevant Fish, but, she had another sister living in London at the time named Emma Jones in Bridgewater Place, Aldersgate-Street. They were not on speaking terms.

Joshua,

I think the Lizzie Fisher confusion came by way of a Spitalfield's woman by the name of "Margaret" who mistakenly identified a Lizzie Fisher as Mary Jane Kelly. This Lizzie Fisher , as far as I know, was not identified or traced to Eddowe's sister with the same name. Also, I'm pretty sure the undergarments found on Elizabeth Jackson were traced back to someone else outside of London.

[Debra A]

Just a small point-The undergarments had the name L E Fisher on them.
They were traced to the owner whose father had sold them for rags. her name escapes me right now but I don't think it was Lizzie.

[Joshua Rogan]

Not that it is relevant Fish, but, she had another sister living in London at the time named Emma Jones in Bridgewater Place, Aldersgate-Street. They were not on speaking terms.

Joshua,

I think the Lizzie Fisher confusion came by way of a Spitalfield's woman by the name of "Margaret" who mistakenly identified a Lizzie Fisher as Mary Jane Kelly. This Lizzie Fisher , as far as I know, was not identified or traced to Eddowe's sister with the same name. Also, I'm pretty sure the undergarments found on Elizabeth Jackson were traced back to someone else outside of London.

Ah. Thanks Jerry. Strange that none of the U.K. papers seemed to talk to this Margaret, unless I missed it.
Any idea where the Lawrence I'd came from?

[Joshua Rogan]

Just a small point-The undergarments had the name L E Fisher on them.
They were traced to the owner whose father had sold them for rags. her name escapes me right now but I don't think it was Lizzie.

Ah crap, I should have checked before I posted....
You're right, it seems to have been Laura Fisher, not Lizzie!

Oh well, at least that's one coincidence less to puzzle over.

[Joshua Rogan]

It seems the surname Lawrence was reported in the Star 9th Nov.

"A woman named Mrs. Hewitt, living at 25, Dorset-street, supplied our reporter with some information. She said she was up till twelve o'clock last night. She heard nothing. Her husband was up at four o'clock each morning, and he heard nothing of a disturbing character. At eleven o'clock this morning she had occasion to look out of the window which affords a view of the court; but she could see nothing. At about half-past eleven she heard the shouts of a mob, and she then discovered that a horrible murder - it makes me shiver to think of it, she said - had been committed. She also stated that a man - a drover - called on her some time ago. He asked her if a summons came in THE NAME OF LAWRENCE to accept it. This man Lawrence, she says, she believes lived with the dead woman. He was off and on in London, sometimes being absent for five or six weeks."

Presumably this Star report was the source of most of the American papers reports.

Also presumably this drover Mr Lawrence lived with someone in the court.... Perhaps even in the room above #13?

[jerryd]

It seems the surname Lawrence was reported in the Star 9th Nov.

"A woman named Mrs. Hewitt, living at 25, Dorset-street, supplied our reporter with some information. She said she was up till twelve o'clock last night. She heard nothing. Her husband was up at four o'clock each morning, and he heard nothing of a disturbing character. At eleven o'clock this morning she had occasion to look out of the window which affords a view of the court; but she could see nothing. At about half-past eleven she heard the shouts of a mob, and she then discovered that a horrible murder - it makes me shiver to think of it, she said - had been committed. She also stated that a man - a drover - called on her some time ago. He asked her if a summons came in THE NAME OF LAWRENCE to accept it. This man Lawrence, she says, she believes lived with the dead woman. He was off and on in London, sometimes being absent for five or six weeks."

Presumably this Star report was the source of most of the American papers reports.

Also presumably this drover Mr Lawrence lived with someone in the court.... Perhaps even in the room above #13?

Thanks Joshua,

The report of the Star you quote coincides with a London Standard report on 10 Nov.,1888 that states Mary Jane was the mistress of a man named "Jack" who was a drover. This Jack lived in "another room in the same house".

Jack Lawrence, perhaps?

[Joshua Rogan]

Mmm, could be, Jerry. And if he lived with a woman called Lizzie Fisher, that would explain most of the various reports rather neatly!