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Polly's Wounds: What were they like?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
    However it was that every issue I referred to as nonsense.
    You have given your explanation. I find that argument unconvincing. We disagree not for the first and probably not the last time.

    However we have agreed on several things on the wounds overall.
    The old view is almost certainly wrong.
    The killer intended to open her up; and was preparing to do so.

    And that the medics estimations for the time taken is generally too high, because they are looking at performing surgery with recovery which is not the situation before them


    You are thrilled so am I who could ask for more

    Steve
    A cup of tea, perhaps...?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
      Also, if your idea is the correct one, there would seemingly be two cuts that commenced at the lower abdomen and went upwards, and two that commenced under the breasts and went downwards, which sounds a tad strange to my ears. Not by any means impossible, but nevertheless strange.
      I think these could be two differing interpretations of the same two cuts. Especially if "under" the breasts is interpreted as "in line with" rather than starting directly beneath.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
        I think these could be two differing interpretations of the same two cuts. Especially if "under" the breasts is interpreted as "in line with" rather than starting directly beneath.
        I guess a fixation with breasts could implement such a line of thought... But the further down the body we go, the less I find the suggestion plausible, I can say that much!

        No, seriously, I am not saying that it had to be in any special way, Joshua. I just wanted to point to how I dont invest much in old school thinking when it comes to Nichols and her wounds. The first posts on this thread used to be perfectly kosher a few years back, but I think they are pretty much scrapped by now!

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
          I think these could be two differing interpretations of the same two cuts. Especially if "under" the breasts is interpreted as "in line with" rather than starting directly beneath.

          Fair point Joshua and that does highlight the problens we have . It's all down to interpretation of mainly press reports.

          No full official post mortem report leaves us like this. Basically trying to.make educated guesses out of the various reports.

          And despite Christer saying he can fit all the reports to his actually good diagram; it's not really the case as some reports say two major cuts some hint at 3, many only mention 1 and the one you started with had an arrowshape did it not.

          The other one which was posted near to the start as a black and white diagram is also worth looking at. I personally prefer Christer's as it as the second cut more vertical. However either could work.

          Steve

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Elamarna View Post

            And despite Christer saying he can fit all the reports to his actually good diagram; it's not really the case as some reports say two major cuts some hint at 3, many only mention 1 and the one you started with had an arrowshape did it not.
            Steve
            Actually, since I have a large number of cuts, I can have one, two, three, four or more major cuts. I never said that a certain sum of them were major or minor.

            Likewise, even if a report only mentions one cut, we nevertheless know that this is wrong; there were more.

            Overall, my sketch does fit the reports well, as I said. I made it a point to secure that.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
              Actually, since I have a large number of cuts, I can have one, two, three, four or more major cuts. I never said that a certain sum of them were major or minor.

              Likewise, even if a report only mentions one cut, we nevertheless know that this is wrong; there were more.

              Overall, my sketch does fit the reports well, as I said. I made it a point to secure that.
              Actually we don't know there was more than one major. Neither Llewellyn or Spratling are 100% clear on that, but we can certainly deduce that there were more than one major cut by looking at all the reports. But am just being pedantic.

              Actually you don't seem to allow for the arrow as it's described in only one report; but neither would I. Maybe I am reading that report wrong but who knows

              Steveh
              Last edited by Elamarna; 03-31-2017, 12:05 PM.

              Comment


              • #67
                well one things for sure the abdomen cuts on polly and the others show a clear similarity in the attention to make the cut for the purpose of getting inside the abdomen, and not just for the cut in of itself. also, that when the ripper had enough time, the major cut(s) in Jackson and chapman and Kelly involved removing large flaps of skin. To me post mortem mutilation of women targeting the midsection with the clear intention of getting to the insides is in itself so rare and similar enough for me to point to the same man-all the ensuing similarities/details (such as the flaps of skin removed) are just a bonus.

                To think that there were two of these rare monsters lurking about, targeting the same types of victims, in the same city, at the same time is too much of a coincidence to me. Especially at such an early time in the history of the modern serial killer. They were probably the same man.
                "Is all that we see or seem
                but a dream within a dream?"

                -Edgar Allan Poe


                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                -Frederick G. Abberline

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                  A cup of tea, perhaps...?
                  Coffee in my case or a pint.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Elamarna: Actually we don't know there was more than one major. Neither Llewellyn or Spratling are 100% clear on that, but we can certainly deduce that there were more than one major cut by looking at all the reports. But am just being pedantic.

                    Steve, I dont think any of the participants in the drama speaks of any of the cuts as "a major" one. Or? So I dont see the relevance of the matter.

                    Actually you don't seem to allow for the arrow as it's described in only one report; but neither would I. Maybe I am reading that report wrong but who knows.

                    Did Joshua mention any arrowshaped cut in his initial post? Where, if so?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                      well one things for sure the abdomen cuts on polly and the others show a clear similarity in the attention to make the cut for the purpose of getting inside the abdomen, and not just for the cut in of itself. also, that when the ripper had enough time, the major cut(s) in Jackson and chapman and Kelly involved removing large flaps of skin. To me post mortem mutilation of women targeting the midsection with the clear intention of getting to the insides is in itself so rare and similar enough for me to point to the same man-all the ensuing similarities/details (such as the flaps of skin removed) are just a bonus.

                      To think that there were two of these rare monsters lurking about, targeting the same types of victims, in the same city, at the same time is too much of a coincidence to me. Especially at such an early time in the history of the modern serial killer. They were probably the same man.
                      They were indeed. Id go so far as to say it is a near certainty.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                        They were indeed. Id go so far as to say it is a near certainty.
                        Im fine with coffee (if it has some gusto to it), but overall, I was never any really enthusiastic beer drinker. Wine or whisky for me, please! But Im picky about the whisky...

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                          Im fine with coffee (if it has some gusto to it), but overall, I was never any really enthusiastic beer drinker. Wine or whisky for me, please! But Im picky about the whisky...
                          Single malt?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                            Im fine with coffee (if it has some gusto to it), but overall, I was never any really enthusiastic beer drinker. Wine or whisky for me, please! But Im picky about the whisky...
                            I like all three, and as Ive gotten older and have the werewithall-ive gotten more picky too!
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                              Elamarna: Actually we don't know there was more than one major. Neither Llewellyn or Spratling are 100% clear on that, but we can certainly deduce that there were more than one major cut by looking at all the reports. But am just being pedantic.

                              Steve, I dont think any of the participants in the drama speaks of any of the cuts as "a major" one. Or? So I dont see the relevance of the matter.

                              Actually you don't seem to allow for the arrow as it's described in only one report; but neither would I. Maybe I am reading that report wrong but who knows.

                              Did Joshua mention any arrowshaped cut in his initial post? Where, if so?
                              I think it was on the double event thread.

                              Steve

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                                I like all three, and as Ive gotten older and have the werewithall-ive gotten more picky too!
                                Personally English Ales, wheat beers, trappist beers, good wine - full bodied red dry white and congac.
                                Coffee dark roasts. Roasted in the last 7 to 10 days.

                                Sorry all very off topic.

                                Steve

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