No Trophies

[lynn cates]

Ah!

Hello Lucky. Thanks.

Now I get it.

Cheers.
LC

[Barnaby]

Hello Barnaby.

Difficult to see how a week and two days counts as shortly thereafter.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Maybe that was the next chance he had to kill...Maybe he had a job, maybe the opportunity did not present itself during the times he was on the prowl. A week and two days isn't that long...

[Fisherman]

[QUOTE]

Hello Christer. Thanks.

Well, bleeding occurs at different rates, but I shan't labour the point.

Of course bleeding occurs at different rates. But just how different can we allow for? You suggest 3.30 as the murder time (perhaps as early as 3.27, actually), and you accept the possibility of Mizen being in place at 3.55. That opens up a gap of 25 minutes, meaning that Nichols would have bled out at a rate of 1,6 decilitres of blood per minute on average...

Let´s take a look at how quick it CAN be. Here´s a snippet:

"A competition for genteshi (butchers) took place on January 26, 2013 in Gecha village of Beregovsky district in Zakarpattya region. Over 70 professional and amateur butchers competed in the contest.
Contesters had a difficult objective: in limited time the butcher had to prepare the pig for the killing, correctly and quickly empty the carcass of blood, singe it, and properly take it apart. Skilled butchers know that every one of these stages is extremely important, and even the smallest mistake can negatively influence the taste of pork...The winner of the fest was Pavel Bidzil. This permanent contestant of the gastronomic fest managed to disassemble the body of the pig in 8 minutes and 13 seconds, which became his personal record."

So, a medium size pig was prepared for killing, then it was killed, then it was drained of all blood, then it was singed and butchered into parts - all in 8 minutes and 13 seconds.

Of course, the pig was alive when killed, meaning that the heartbeats helped the blood along, plus the pig would have been hung neck down, which would also have helped.

But a person lying down with all neck vessels opened up is also subject to the laws of nature, and Paul did say that he felt her twitching when he felt her breast.

The blood within us takes a minute to pass the heart, all of it. If the main aorta is cut off, we will bleed out in a minutes time.

Severing the main arteries and all of the other vessels in the neck will bleed a person out in a matter of very few minutes. If the heart is no longer beating when the cut is made, that will slow the process down - but not to twentyfive minutes, reasonably.

If Lechmere did not do the cutting, then it was done very close in time to his arrival, and not perhaps fifteen to eighteen minutes before it.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

long and short

Hello Barnaby. Thanks.

"A week and two days isn't that long."

But neither is it shortly after.

You also assume that Polly's assassin sought to kill. Whence the inference?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

attack

Hello Christer. Thanks.

So, you have moved it back to 25 minutes? So much for compromise! (heh-heh)

Seriously, I think the attack was begun around 3.30. I have no idea how long it took before she were unconscious and prostrate. But, as I remarked above, I don't see a long attack. But I could be wrong.

And I think she was cut right after she were on the ground. But I don't see 25 minutes.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer. Thanks.

So, you have moved it back to 25 minutes? So much for compromise! (heh-heh)

Seriously, I think the attack was begun around 3.30. I have no idea how long it took before she were unconscious and prostrate. But, as I remarked above, I don't see a long attack. But I could be wrong.

And I think she was cut right after she were on the ground. But I don't see 25 minutes.

Cheers.
LC

I see ten minutes. Tops. Which tallies nicely with her being cut around the time Lechmere "found" her.

The best,
Fisherman

[Damaso Marte]

You also assume that Polly's assassin sought to kill. Whence the inference?

Seriously?

I know you think that Ischemschidt "didn't know what he was doing" and may have thought that he was butchering a horse, but whoever killed Nichols put his hands around her throat, lowered her unconscious body to the ground, and cut major blood vessels.

He was definitely trying to kill something, and I've never heard of manual strangulation being used to kill animals, so I don't think it's a preposterous assumption that homicide was intended.

[lynn cates]

a pinch of assault

Hello Christer. Thanks.

Again, depends on assault time.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

intent

Hello Damaso. Thanks.

"He was definitely trying to kill something, and I've never heard of manual strangulation being used to kill animals, so I don't think it's a preposterous assumption that homicide was intended."

JI tried to strangle his wife. Whoever killed Polly may have begun by striking a blow. But BOTH can result from a gust of anger--lashing out--with no overt intent to kill.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer. Thanks.

Again, depends on assault time.

Cheers.
LC

The rate of bloodloss ...?

The best,
Christer

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael.

We are told the backyard door swung closed automatically. Are you suggesting the killer held it open by some means intentionally?

.

Hi Jon,

I dont recall reading that it shut automatically Jon, and in any photos that exist or even a sketch from the period that back door seems to be open.

[Beowulf]

Hello Barbara. Thanks.

Pretty close. Of course, it depends upon the accuracy of her testimony.

Cheers.
LC

But it was not just her testimony.

"Albert Cadosch had entered the neighbouring yard at 27 Hanbury Street at about 5:30 a.m., and heard voices in the yard followed by the sound of something falling against the fence."

You'd have to refute two people's time stories.

[Michael W Richards]

I am really pleased when people cite the statement of Mr Cadosche...its a vital ear witness account in the Chapman case. Because at the time he hears a soft "no" and a thud in the next yard Annie is either actively being killed, found dead by someone or about to be gutted. There is really no reason to suspect the soft cry was by anyone but Annie due to the time he heard it and the disposition of the corpse when examined shortly thereafter. It was her and her killer..almost certainly. Which of course means Mrs Long was wrong.

The proximity to the sounds and the fact that Cadosche was quite likely to have a better sense of the time, Im sure he checked it as he first woke...dont we all?

Cheers

[Phil H]

You are aware, are you Michael, that the integrity of Cadosche as a witness has been called into question?

Phil

The link to the thread in question is here:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6767&highlight=Cadosche

[Michael W Richards]

You are aware, are you Michael, that the integrity of Cadosche as a witness has been called into question?

Phil

The link to the thread in question is here:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...light=Cadosche

I checked the link Phil and I think the explanation for the conclusion is hard to read actually. And Id be inclined... much to my dismay ... to agree with T Wescott when he points out the relevance of his familial deceptions with his statement in a murder investigation.

There is nothing that Cadosche says that condemns anyone in particular, nor is there an absolute certainty he heard the victim cry softly...and it doesnt appear to me that his statement is re-considered by the authorities for its validity after its given. All in all its a pretty benign statement, it doesnt seem to serve him in any way nor does it make him an eye witness to a murder or murderer, which would serve the police.

But for investigatorial purposes its invaluable I think.

Cheers Phil