Who was the first clothes-puller?

[curious]

It could also explain why Polly, after her obvious lack of success, headed that way as a default option.

Cheers.
LC

So, perhaps Cross (if he was her killer) did not have to go to Whitechapel Road to hunt for her?

[curious]

Dave,his mum lived on Pinchin Street and was a horse flesh dealer (amongst other things).

So, that might mean Cross would have access to knives, etc. for JtR's preferred line of work? or even saws, etc., needed to cut up human bodies?

Wonder if she was in that line of work when he was a child and if he worked in her shop?

[Sally]

So, that might mean Cross would have access to knives, etc. for JtR's preferred line of work? or even saws, etc., needed to cut up human bodies?

Wonder if she was in that line of work when he was a child and if he worked in her shop?

Hi Curious

Maria is listed in the 1891 census as a horse flesh dealer. As far as I know, we don't know what she did in 1888. She was employed in a number of trades as we can see from the historic record, including also straw bonnet maker and dressmaker, amongst other things. It looks as though she had no single profession and horse flesh dealer was probably just what she did at the time - who knows for how long - but no more than a few years.

She wasn't in that line of work when Cross was a child so far as it is possible to tell.

[Robert]

Hi Lynn

Just thinking that Issy would have done a lot more damage to Polly, even if interrupted.

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Velma. Yes, that would be the case.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

delusion

Hello Robert. Why would that be? Much would depend on which particular delusion he was having.

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

Hi Lynn

Well, with the way you described it, I just thought that an experienced butcher in a state of wrath would easily inflict some very bad cuts.

[Sally]

Wasn't it thought (who by, my memory is useless) that the knife that killed Nichols could have been a butcher's knife?

[lynn cates]

tale

Hello Robert. My conjecture is that, when he was angry, his delusion was of his hated wife frustrating him. (As you recall, he blamed her for the failed business and for having him committed in 1887.) And we know that later he in fact began to strangle her.

But after Polly (and Annie) was dead, he may have thought the body a dead animal, say, a sheep. That would explain why he thought, and related to the doctor, that he was taking sheep parts to the market for resale. (He mentioned the head, and that would explain why the attempt to remove Annie's head.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

butcher's knife

Hello Sally. Yes, it was decided that a butcher's knife, well ground down, could have done for the first two.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hi Curious

Maria is listed in the 1891 census as a horse flesh dealer. As far as I know, we don't know what she did in 1888. She was employed in a number of trades as we can see from the historic record, including also straw bonnet maker and dressmaker, amongst other things. It looks as though she had no single profession and horse flesh dealer was probably just what she did at the time - who knows for how long - but no more than a few years.

She wasn't in that line of work when Cross was a child so far as it is possible to tell.

Thanks, Sally. Interesting information.

[Sally]

Hello Sally. Yes, it was decided that a butcher's knife, well ground down, could have done for the first two.

Cheers.
LC

Hmm. Well that's very interesting, Lynn. I understand why you favour Isenschmid (?) for Nichols and Chapman; I understand that the police thought they had their man at first.

And there I go again, woefully off topic.

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello Sally. So sorry. Off topic on account of me.

Mea culpa.

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

Hi Lynn

We'll return to it on an Issy thread.

[bolo]

Hi Lynn,

Hello Sally. Yes, it was decided that a butcher's knife, well ground down, could have done for the first two.

as far as I know, this was assumed in Annie's case, not in Polly's. According to Dr Llewellyn, the knife used to kill and mutilate Polly was long-bladed and moderately sharp. A genuine butcher's knife on the other hand, especially if it is of the thin but sturdy and medium-length type used for boning, is always razor-sharp.

I think the jagged wounds on Polly's abdomen are a tell-tale sign for a not exceptionally sharp knife that had been used with great force. I also think that the killer used a different knife on the other victims starting with Annie.

Regards,

Boris