The signature of Polly Nichols

[Chris Scott]

Apologies if this has been posted before but I don't recall seeing it. This is the marriage register entry for the marriage on 16 Jan 1864 between William Nichols and Mary Ann Walker which shows what is presumably her own signature.
She signed herself initially as Nichols, then this is crossed out and she signed Walker.

[Chris Scott]

Below you will find the marriage register entry for the marriage of Mary Nichols's parents, Edward and Caroline Walker, in 1840.
Chris

In 1841 census, Caroline's parents are listed as follows:
Ewer Street, St Saviour's. Southwark
Head: Edmund Webb aged 64 - Sawer (sic)
WifeL: Mary Webb aged 64

[Chris Scott]

Here is the 1841 census entry for Mary Ann's parents
The address was Dyer Street, Christchurch, Southwark

[Steven Russell]

Great stuff, Chris, but in your post no.1, the signatures do seem to have been written by the same person. Perhaps a man could sign for his wife in those days. I don't know.

Best wishes,

Steve.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Steven
If you look at the name Nichols in post 1 under the signatures of bride and groom (especially the letters H and L) they certainly look like different writings to me
regards
Chris

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi gang,
the reproduction of Mary's married and maiden name signitures in Neal's 2007 book (pp 60) offer a good comparison of Mary's writing.
If I do say so myself (and I do but only because he isnt looking) I found the chapter on Mary very illuminating when I reread it recently.

Jenni

ps also Annie Chapmans maiden name signiture is in the book.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Jenny
Many thanks for that - after the probs about the book being offered via unauthorised channels, what is currently the best way to order direct from Neal?
All the best
Chris

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi Chris,

hope you are well. Give me a PM/email at jennipegg@yahoo.co.uk and I will get Neal to sort something out - we still have a fair amount of copies of the book.

Hope this helps
Jenni

[Steven Russell]

Come on, Chris. While I applaud your research and willingness to share your findings, despite the different length of the "h" and presence / lack of a loop in the "l", surely anyone with half an eye can see that the two names were written by the same hand!

No offence,

Steve.

[Chris Scott]

No offence taken:-)
As far as I know (and I am certainly no expert on marital procedures and legal requirements, being resolutely single...) the bride, groom and witnesses sign the register with their own hand and, as far as I am aware, this was also the case in the 19th century.
If, for whatever reason (the most usual being illiteracy) either party was unable to write then they would make their mark as we can see in the certificate for Mary Ann's parents and it would be countersigned to this effect. I have also found examples of this in tracing my own family. I don't know of any case where the groom would have signed on behalf of his new wife rather than letting her make her mark if she were unable to write.
Hope this makes sense -and I definitely have two eyes :-)
regards
Chris

[Steven Russell]

Perhaps, then, both signatures were written by the registrar. They both seem to have been written by someone who was no stranger to the pen.

Best wishes,

Steve.

[Jon Guy]

Perhaps, then, both signatures were written by the registrar.

Hi Steve

I doubt the Registrar would make the error of signing Nichols instead of Walker.

[Steven Russell]

I am simply saying that it is obvious that both signatures were written by the same person. No idea who he / she might have been.

Best wishes,

Steve.

[Neal Shelden]

There really is no chance that Mary's signature was written by anyone but Mary. If you search through many Victorian records you will find that much of the handwriting looks the same. I think the fact that she wrote Nichols then had to write Walker puts it beyond doubt that it's hers anyway.
Her signature as a witness to her brother's marriage on a register in 1869 does look a bit different, but you can also see many similarities. People don't always write the same throughout their lives.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Neal!

Well, it's a nice thought, that we are looking at Polly's signature!

But we cannot swear...

All the best
Jukka