What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed?

[MrBarnett]

Hi Sam,

I don't think the matter of "What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed" will enlighten us to any degree, so I am pleased that the thread has evolved into its current form.

Regards,

Simon

Barnyflat,

This is what I was responding to.

Gary

[MrBarnett]

Can't agree with you on that.

Ironically,do you know how Harold Shipman was suspected and caught?

I was being ironic.

[DJA]

You forgot the smiley face.

[MrBarnett]

Not sure which post you were commenting on.

A link would be handy.

Reckon Jack got Polly off Hanbury Street by telling her he had no funds for blackmail at that time of the morning,however he had a friend from Kent who would put her up for the night in Bucks Row.

That would tie in with other evidence.

Please explain - or refrain🤔

[barnflatwyngarde]

Barnyflat,

This is what I was responding to.

Gary

No problem Gary.

My apologies.

[Elamarna]

For what it is worth, i found the original question to be interesting? and indeed Simon's input on demolition has added a small rewrite to my work.


Steve

[MrBarnett]

I think Simon's 'post' map is actually the 1873 OS map. This is the 1894 OS:



It is not clear from that whether the yard off Bucks Row and the 'stores' off Winthrop Street are interconnected. However, the Goad map Simon posted does suggest two distinct premises.

[Elamarna]

I think Simon's 'post' map is actually the 1873 OS map. This is the 1894 OS:

[ATTACH]18856[/ATTACH]

It is not clear from that whether the yard off Bucks Row and the 'stores' off Winthrop Street are interconnected. However, the Goad map Simon posted does suggest two distinct premises.

Agreed, I have include the detail about the possible demolision at the end of 88, because it does raise the possibility and its interesting in itself; but it's far from clear that this route was possible.
Goad, being a Fire Insurance map, normally show exits. of course its not from 1888, so may not show the situation at that point.


Steve

[MrBarnett]

This is a more recent image of the stores on Winthrop Street. There is clearly access from there.



As for the building materials mentioned, I doubt they came from Brown's Stable yard itself. Surely it was too small to warrant a clock tower and a bell? I suspect they were just being stored there.

[Elamarna]

This is a more recent image of the stores on Winthrop Street. There is clearly access from there.

[ATTACH]18857[/ATTACH]

As for the building materials mentioned, I doubt they came from Brown's Stable yard itself. Surely it was too small to warrant a clock tower and a bell? I suspect they were just being stored there.

Yes, there certainly was access at a later date, but if it connect tothe old yard is the $1000 question is it not?

Good point about maybe being used just to store the material, but that may suggest reduced useage of the yard as stables itself.

For me these are all very interesting points and issues, it helps to give a fuller picture in my view.


Steve

[Simon Wood]

In the creation of the East London Railway (opening on 10th April 1876), a cutting was dug through the street, beside the school, destroying several cottages in Bucks Row and Winthrop Street [Little North Street].

This resulted in a tract of land becoming available.

The Times, 6th November 1874—



The Times, same date—



There may still be a plan of the site.

Regards,

Simon

[MrBarnett]

I'm sure someone, I think it may have been Debra, once posted the land tax records for Winthrop Street which identified who owned the stores.

I'm having problems with Ancestry at the moment, so can't look them up myself.

[Robert]

This it Gary?

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=18407&page=2

[MrBarnett]

This it Gary?

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=18407&page=2

Yes, that's what I was thinking of. Well done, sir.

I can't make it out on my phone, though.

[Simon Wood]

The address of Mr. Brown's Stable Yard was 46 Winthrop Street [see Goad map]. This suggests there was a means of entrance to the stable yard at this address.

46 Winthrop Street is not listed in the 1891 Census [it ends with No. 44].

Also, 46 Winthrop Street does not appear in the 1888 Post Office Directory—



PO Directories were compiled in the preceding year, so it is possible that Mr. Brown [a] had gone out of business before 1888, or [b] didn't think the cost of an entry in the 1888 PO Directory was worth the candle.

By the time of the 7th January 1889 auction, the freehold had been sold, and the materials constituting the Stables, Coach Houses and sheds had been put up for sale.

At the time a 'square' was the unit of measure for flooring and roofing—100 sq. ft [10ft x 10ft]. On sale was 100 squares—10,000 sq. ft.

Also there were 40 'squares' of floor boards—4,000 sq. ft.

Also 50 rods of brickwork. A rod was about 4,500 bricks. This suggests that on auction in Mr. Browns Yard were 225,000 bricks.

There were also 150 'squares' of stone paving—15,000 sq. ft [250 x 60 ft].

It sounds as though these were the amounts of materials you would end up with after dismantling the stables, coach houses, sheds, and not forgetting a turret clock with three faces, a bell, tower and stable fittings.

What we need on Casebook is a builder to work out the possible construction of Mr. Brown's Stable Yard.