What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed?

[Fisherman]

My views on Llewellyn are very clear, and I have refered to them in todays long post. I think best summed up as did his best, but out of his depth.

His examinations were incomplete. not once but twice.
His comments are contary to medical science, and are not backed by the evidence which is available.


Of course he doesnt think his views trump mine, he is long dead.

steve

This man:

Dr Llewellyn maintained a surgery at 152 Whitechapel Road. The A-Z describes his qualifications as: “Matric. U. of London, 1869. Hon. Certif. in Obst., 1873. MRCS, 1874. LRCP (Lond.), 1876. Medical Officer to E and EC Districts, and City Mission."[2]

... is the one you describe as being "out of his depth". The evidence available has to be subjected to "interpretation" before anyone can arrive at the conslusion that it is wrongful. But thatīs the way things go in ripperology, Llewellyn and Killeen were "out of their depth" and Phillips was mistaken - if the medical evidence is not in line with your thinking, then dismiss it as wrong.

Because this could not be a case of YOU being out of YOUR depth, could it? Making jokes about how Llewellyn has no view to offer since he is dead does not obscure the fact that he has the upper hand on you on account of having seen the wounds and damage. With many years of experience, he made his call based on a REAL examination.

You donīt like it, and you have a "very clear view" about him.

Well, so have I.

[John G]

Is it not interesting that when Lechmere saw something lying in the street his first thought was that it was a tarpaulin? Was that perhaps something he had encountered on Bucks Row before on his walk into work - something he almost expected to see perhaps?

It's theoretically possible, of course. However, that doesn't make it likely.

[John G]

Hi John,

I'm not suggesting anything other than how the murder might have taken place in Winthrop Street and the body be subsequently moved to Bucks Row without leaving a suspicious blood trail.

Of course, if that was what happened, then the finger of suspicion would point to the slaughtermen.

Gary

Hi Gary,

Okay, I suppose it's theoretically possible. However, it doesn't seem very likely to me. Of course, if the killer had a pony and cart that would be an entirely different matter. Wait a minute...William Bury possesed a pony and cart.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

[Bridewell]

I might have misunderstood this post. Are you suggesting that JtR was in the habit of wandering through Whitechapel with copious amounts of tarpaulin strapped to his back?

Is it not interesting that when Lechmere saw something lying in the street his first thought was that it was a tarpaulin? Was that perhaps something he had encountered on Bucks Row before on his walk into work - something he almost expected to see perhaps?

[Elamarna]

Itīs actually the examining medico, Rees Ralph Llewellyn, who disagrees with you.

Presumably, he thinks having made the examination trumps your speculating away 130 years on. People are such besserwissers.

My views on Llewellyn are very clear, and I have refered to them in todays long post. I think best summed up as did his best, but out of his depth.

His examinations were incomplete. not once but twice.
His comments are contary to medical science, and are not backed by the evidence which is available.


Of course he doesnt think his views trump mine, he is long dead.

steve

[Fisherman]

We agree!!

Unsettling, but there you are. Some things are presumably too obvious to question. Less things than I would have expected, but anyway.

[Fisherman]

The evidence suggests not Christer.

While I do not rule out an attack to the abdomen as being first, it is unlikely.
The possibility that Nichols bled out into the" Loose Tissue" is not only unlikely from a physiological viewpoint, but is also not backed by the physical evidence that is available.

You do not agree, so be it.

Steve

Itīs actually the examining medico, Rees Ralph Llewellyn, who disagrees with you.

Presumably, he thinks having made the examination trumps your speculating away 130 years on. People are such besserwissers.

[Elamarna]

Once more, Nichols was NOT sexually posed.

We agree!!

[Elamarna]

"Very good"?

"Chance"?

There is a GREAT chance that he was right on much more than he is generally credited for.

The evidence suggests not Christer.

While I do not rule out an attack to the abdomen as being first, it is unlikely.
The possibility that Nichols bled out into the" Loose Tissue" is not only unlikely from a physiological viewpoint, but is also not backed by the physical evidence that is available.

You do not agree, so be it.

Steve

[Fisherman]

Nichols has no blood down her front like all the other JtR victims have no blood down their front. This means they are all lying prostrate on their backs at the time of the incision across their necks, severing the jugular, the blood pooling under their necks and in a lot of cases being absorbed by their hair, clothes, and beds.

It would mean if she was moved, she was left in the exact same position she was murdered in and if she was moved, what is all the sexual posing about?

Once more, Nichols was NOT sexually posed.

[Fisherman]

There is the very good chance that Llewellyn was wrong, and that suggestion appears to be backed by evidence.



Steve

"Very good"?

"Chance"?

There is a GREAT chance that he was right on much more than he is generally credited for.

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

You're a Kosminski man, so I sense your reluctance to go along with this idea and pursue it to its utmost.

PC Thain had left his cape at the horse slaughterers.

Sleep on it. It may be thinking outside the box, but it sure answers a lot of questions and poses even more.

Regards,

Simon

Simon, yes I am a kosminski man, however as Gary could tell you I have seriously considered the involvement of the HB3, and while I have not 100% ruled the possibility out, I see no solid facts to pursue it with.

And yes Thain left his cape there, but he claimed another took it there did he not? The slaughter men are silent on the matter, however we are told by Thain he passed the junction of Brady and Bucks Row, last at about 3.30, and Neil swore saw the 3 at around 3.15-3.20. it is therefore possible that Thain passed it to Neil who dropped it off.

Of course this is contrary to the testimony of Tomkins.

Indeed something is covered up at HB, just what I am not sure.


Steve

[Simon Wood]

Hi Steve,

You're a Kosminski man, so I sense your reluctance to go along with this idea and pursue it to its utmost.

Don't forget, PC Thain had left his cape at the horse slaughterers.

Sleep on it. It may be thinking outside the box, but it sure answers a lot of questions and poses even more.

Regards,

Simon

[Batman]

Nichols has no blood down her front like all the other JtR victims have no blood down their front. This means they are all lying prostrate on their backs at the time of the incision across their necks, severing the jugular, the blood pooling under their necks and in a lot of cases being absorbed by their hair, clothes, and beds.

It would mean if she was moved, she was left in the exact same position she was murdered in and if she was moved, what is all the sexual posing about?

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

Think of it this way.

The gates of Brown's Stable Yard opened inwards. This suggests they were locked/fastened from the inside.

If correct, how did Mr. Brown exit the yard?

Through the Winthrop Street entrance.

Regards,

Simon

while I accept your point Simon, its certainly logical, how about they could be locked from either side. That would depend on the lock of which I assume we have no idea at all.

I already have it as a possible, if unconfirmed escape route.
The demolition suggests it may have been under or unused in August.

Steve