The Canonical Five

[lynn cates]

welcome

Hello Wig. Thanks.

The pleasure is all mine.

And welcome to the boards.

Cheers.
LC

[wigngown]

Hi Lynn cates,

Thank you. I'm new to these boards so it's helpful to get everyone's views.

Best regards.

[lynn cates]

evidence

Hello Wig. Thanks.

There is absolutely NO evidence to indicate one hand involved in more than the first two murders.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

skill

Hello John.

"How do you know the skill set for Eddowes murder isn't the same as Nichols and Chapman?"This was stated at inquest.

Also, Howard Brown has posed elsewhere a clipping in which some of he medicos claimed a different hand.

Cheers.
LC

[wigngown]

Lynn cates,

Can you elaborate please?

Best regards.

[lynn cates]

tosh

Hello Sleuth. Thanks for starting this thread.

In my estimation, the C5 is tosh.

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

The intent would remain the same, it would simply have been trumped by his desire to not be caught and hanged.

c.d.

which would trump a lot of things.

[c.d.]

"Liz Strides killer didnt kill her to mutilate her, there is no evidence at all in that single murder that suggests further intent."

Hello Michael,

How do you know what the killer's intent was? If he was scared off that would have no effect on his intent if it was in fact mutilation. The intent would remain the same, it would simply have been trumped by his desire to not be caught and hanged.

c.d.

[Elamarna]

Probably, but as far as throat cutting efficiency and neatness goes, the wound on Stride is far and away the most professional. So that might tell us something.

Errata, I have to disagree there somewhat, while it may be neat it was not efficient and professional.
At the inquest Dr William Blackwell said amongst lot of comments that:

"Deceased would have bled to death comparatively slowly, on account of the vessels on one side only being severed, and the artery not being completely severed."

That to me is not efficient!
Efficient would be a fast bleed out in a professional sense.

regards

steve

[Errata]

If "Jack" killed his victims with strangulation then throat slashing, and mutilated them post mortem, how could one tell whether the killer of Stride intended to only slit her throat and kill her, or intended to move on to post mortem mutilations, but was disturbed so couldn't? Wouldn't both scenarios leave exactly the same evidence.. ie. a body with a cut throat but no mutilations.

Probably, but as far as throat cutting efficiency and neatness goes, the wound on Stride is far and away the most professional. So that might tell us something.

[Azarna]

Liz Strides killer didnt kill her to mutilate her, there is no evidence at all in that single murder that suggests further intent.

If "Jack" killed his victims with strangulation then throat slashing, and mutilated them post mortem, how could one tell whether the killer of Stride intended to only slit her throat and kill her, or intended to move on to post mortem mutilations, but was disturbed so couldn't? Wouldn't both scenarios leave exactly the same evidence.. ie. a body with a cut throat but no mutilations.

[Elamarna]

How do you know the skill set for Eddowes murder isn't the same as Nicholls and Chapman? How do you know Kelly was killed by someone known to her? Nicholls organs weren't removed, unlike Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly, so why isn't she the anomaly?

John,

Not sure how it can be said that the skill sets for Eddowes are different to Chapman, mutilations are very similar, intestines are pulled from the body, organs are removed. Agreed that the wounds on Eddowes go further (the facial cuts for instance) and more organs are removed but that to me does not suggest a separate skill set.
Despite the myths which still are repeated about attempts at Decapitation on the C5, Chapman was the only one where it almost happened, followed by Eddowes, which although similar is nowhere as near complete then Nichols.

Steve

[John G]

I believe that the same person killed both Polly and Annie. I also believe that the evidence from those 2 cases creates a profile of madness, which is someone who kills strangers, women, so he is free to mutilate them. I believe the outdoor venues speak both to his self control issues and the fact that women alone and most vulnerable were on the streets at night.

If the skill set was the same with the Eddowes murder Id be inclined to add her to the list. But it isnt, and cicumstantial evidence in the Eddowes case offers a potential motive for killing her. liz Strides killer didnt kill her to mutilate her, there is no evidence at all in that single murder that suggest further intent. Mary Kelly wasnt outdoors, whe wasnt a stranger to the killer based on the circumstantial and some physical evidence, and she wasnt mutilated...she was obliterated.

I believe that anyone who is looking at some unsolved murders rather than a suspected series of them would likely agree with that as a starting premise.

How do you know the skill set for Eddowes murder isn't the same as Nicholls and Chapman? How do you know Kelly was killed by someone known to her? Nicholls organs weren't removed, unlike Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly, so why isn't she the anomaly?

[Michael W Richards]

I believe that the same person killed both Polly and Annie. I also believe that the evidence from those 2 cases creates a profile of madness, which is someone who kills strangers, women, so he is free to mutilate them. I believe the outdoor venues speak both to his self control issues and the fact that women alone and most vulnerable were on the streets at night.

If the skill set was the same with the Eddowes murder Id be inclined to add her to the list. But it isnt, and circumstantial evidence in the Eddowes case offers a potential motive for killing her. Liz Strides killer didnt kill her to mutilate her, there is no evidence at all in that single murder that suggests further intent. Mary Kelly wasnt outdoors, she wasnt a stranger to the killer based on the circumstantial and some physical evidence, and she wasnt mutilated...she was obliterated.

I believe that anyone who is looking at some unsolved murders rather than a suspected series of them would likely agree with that as a starting premise.

[John G]

John,

Yes, he cut off the legs and head. I highly doubt cutting open the abdomen would aid in transport.

Well Dr Phillips didn't seem to share that view! And Evans and Rumbellow (2006) note, "There was a gash to the abdomen but this appeared to have been inflicted when dismemberment took place."