The Canonical Five

[Ausgirl]

"Nearly a dozen of these extremely rare" Whitechapel murders between 1888 and 1891? I don't think that can be right, unless you've uncovered cases not know to the authorities. Thus, apart from the C5 we have Tabram, who I consider a likely JtR victim based on signature characteristics, McKenzie and Coles. If my maths is correct that makes eight, which clearly isn't "nearly a dozen". Perhaps you were considering the murder rate generally? And what about after 1891? Can you cite a single murder in Whitechapel, that even remotely resembled a C5 incident, until blah blah blah...

Woah, nelly. Yes, there were *eleven*. They're all plastered up on the 'Victims' portion of this site, plain to see (plus a couple near-murders, extremely violent).

I'm not actually sure what it is you think I'm saying. If you've not worked it out by the time I wake up, I'll explain it more clearly then.

G'night.

[John G]

Woah, nelly. Yes, there were *eleven*. They're all plastered up on the 'Victims' portion of this site, plain to see (plus a couple near-murders, extremely violent).

I'm not actually sure what it is you think I'm saying. If you've not worked it out by the time I wake up, I'll explain it more clearly then.

G'night.

Oh dear, I seem to have inadvertently re-entered Pierre-world! Okay, please name eleven victims who were killed in Whitechapel, by having their throat cut, between, say, 1888 and 1891? Obviously Eddowes would have to be included, as Mitre Square was very close to the boundary. Or, indeed, any victims who were mutilated within the Whitechapel boundary.

You refer to the Victims' portion of the site. Okay, that includes Fairy Fay. Now, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but she probably didn't exist! However, I will endeavour to help you:

Rose Mylett: killed in Poplar, throat not cut.

Pinchin Street: Torso victim, no medical evidence the victim was murdered, or that she was attacked in Whitechapel, although the body was dumped there. Possibly from a different series of murders that pre-dates JtR.

Carrie Brown: murdered in a different continent.

Emma Smith: throat not cut, initially survived injuries, attacked by a gang.

Annie Millwood: Official verdict, death by natural causes. No throat cut.

Whitehall and Elizabeth Jackson: Torso victims, bodies not dumped in Whitechapel.

Ada Wilson: not murdered; survived injuries.

Annie Farmer: not murdered, superficial injuries.

If I can be of any further assistance please don't hesitate to ask.

[Observer]

The Flim Flam Man

Hello Damaso. You have summed up my position quite well.

Right now, there is a serious investigation to see if the Thomas Conway involved in the Cleveland st affair was OUR Thomas Conway.

If so, a simple solution seems obvious.

Cheers.
LC

Right now ! Serious investigation? This has been bandied about for two years now. I'd have thought if the two Thomas Conways were one and the same something would have emerged before now.

[lynn cates]

inclusivity

Hello John. How many of those were thought by the police to be included in the canon at one time or other?

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

There's also Francis Coles John. I'd say she sneaks into the killing ground of Jack The Ripper

[jerryd]

There's also Francis Coles John. I'd say she sneaks into the killing ground of Jack The Ripper

And Alice McKenzie.

[RockySullivan]

Pinchin Street: Torso victim, no medical evidence the victim was murdered, or that she was attacked in Whitechapel, although the body was dumped there. Possibly from a different series of murders that pre-dates JtR.

If I can be of any further assistance please don't hesitate to ask.

Pinchin inquest...


The CORONER, in summing up, observed that they had not been able to produce any evidence as to the identity of the deceased, but the evidence of both medical gentlemen engaged in the case clearly showed that the unfortunate woman had died a violent death. It was a matter of congratulation that the present case did not appear to have any connexion with the previous murders that had taken place in the district, and the body might have, for ought they knew to the contrary, been brought from the West-end and deposited where it was found.

The jury at once returned a verdict of "Wilful murder against some person or persons unknown."

[Ausgirl]

Oh dear, I seem to have inadvertently re-entered Pierre-world! Blah blah blah

Unbunch yer undies, John?

I was talking about murders (that were not domestic violence!). Not just the ones which *could* be the Ripper, that's not what I have been saying at all.

Perhaps I haven't spoken clearly enough.. What I am saying is, that IF "murder was a rare occurrence" in the East End, why is there then this spate of violent attacks on women in the street, in that period -- even without the C5 (let's just allow for the moment that they were all indeed committed by JtR) -- and without the torsos (as there's really no way of knowing where many of those were from orginally) there's still six more that were violent enough to be concurrently or retroactively *thought* to be Ripper crimes... by the *police*.

And they stood out, for a reason - perhaps because amid the usual welter of DV attacks, these seems particularly brutal and pointless, and made the streets appear very unsafe.

So, what I'm trying to explore here is - IF murder was such a rare thing, then what other factors may have been in play to create this upsurge in *that particular* type of crime, in that place and time, and apparently no other? Keeping in mind that the fatal attacks began shortly prior to the C5, with Smith and Tabram, and that there's a couple before that in which the victims managed to survive.

There were (and I just now woke up -- good morning!) so I'll have a coffee before digging them out, but there were a few other serious and apparently motiveless street-attack murder attempts (one in the middle of Spitalfields market), difference being the offenders were actually caught. But I never see these anywhere mentioned in the statistics, oddly enough, likely because they're not a mystery. But still, they ought to be included in instances of attempted murder that fit the bill, if were going to talk about how statistically 'rare' this type of attack - successful in causing death, or not - really was in that place, at that time.

EDIT: and of course I didn't mean Fairy bloody Fay or the American murder. Quite clearly, I have been saying "in that place, in that time" and the like.

[wigngown]

jerryd/Observer,

I've always thought that two killers, sharing similar M.O's, on the loose in what was a releatively small area & time frame to be improbable.

Best regards.

[GUT]

jerryd/Observer,

I've always thought that two killers, sharing similar M.O's, on the loose in what was a releatively small area & time frame to be improbable.

Best regards.

Have to agree not impossible, but improbable.

Well that's my 2 bob anyway.

[Ausgirl]

I agree - for at least 4 of the 11... maybe 5. Or 6..