Double Event: Fact or Fiction?

[Patrick S]

I know it's been done. But, in honor of the anniversary of the 'Double Event', I thought it may be an interesting exercise to discuss our thoughts with respect that night. I think the first question is obvious:

WAS there a "Double Event" at all? Do you feel that Stride and Eddowes were both victims of "Jack the Ripper"? Why?

Do you believe that Joseph Lewende saw "Jack the Ripper"?

Do you believe that "The Ripper" left the graffito in Goulston Street?

[Patrick S]

I know it's been done. But, in honor of the anniversary of the 'Double Event', I thought it may be an interesting exercise to discuss our thoughts with respect that night. I think the first question is obvious:

WAS there a "Double Event" at all? Do you feel that Stride and Eddowes were both victims of "Jack the Ripper"? Why?

I do believe in the Double Event. I've always felt that it was too much of coincidence that the two killings too place in such close proximinty to one another on the same night. If Stride were killed another night, throat cut, no mutiliations, in the absence of anything else that may link her as a JtR victim, I'd likely have a different view.

Do you believe that Joseph Lewende saw "Jack the Ripper"?

I do. Lewende saw a man with Stride some ten minutes before her body was found. The saw the couple outside Church Passage, with led into Mitre Square. Therefore, I think that Jack the Ripper was "of shabby appearance, about 30 years of age and 5ft. 9in. in height, of fair complexion, having a small fair moustache, and wearing a red neckerchief and a cap with a peak".

Do you believe that "The Ripper" left the graffito in Goulston Street?

No, I do not.

I shall go first!

[Jon Guy]

WAS there a "Double Event" at all? Do you feel that Stride and Eddowes were both victims of "Jack the Ripper"? Why??

Yes. Two women of about the same age, living on the same street, found with severed left carotid artery within an hour of each other.

Do you believe that Joseph Lewende saw "Jack the Ripper"?

Yes, considering the timings of Eddowes death and when the couple were seen (they weren`t there when Harvey walked down Church Passage moments later) and no alternative couple came forward or were found.

Do you believe that "The Ripper" left the graffito in Goulston Street?

Yes

[Rosella]

Yes, I do believe there was a double event, for the same reasons as above. It's an old theory but a goodie, IMO, that Jack was disrupted in his fun by Diemshutz's pony and cart. He then went off in search of someone else to slaughter.

Yes, I do believe Lawende saw Kate and client, even though it was only a momentary glimpse. It was a rather rainy night and I don't think too many other couples would be choosing that location for an early morning chat.

On the balance of probabilities I think that the GSG was left by Jack near the apron as an anti-Semitic message. The fact it was left adjacent to a lodging house where many Jews lived, emphasises this.

[Shaggyrand]

Yes, for the reasons already stated.
Yes. I don't see the timing needed for it to be another couple to be very reasonable.
No. Nope. Uh-uh. Negative.

[Patrick S]

Yes, I do believe there was a double event, for the same reasons as above. It's an old theory but a goodie, IMO, that Jack was disrupted in his fun by Diemshutz's pony and cart. He then went off in search of someone else to slaughter.

I think this highlights the fact that killing - in and of itself - wasn't what provided the satisfaction the killer sought. Obviously, this is a pretty elementary statement, and not new. I only bring it up because I had a chance to catch up with a friend this past weekend. He's a police detective who allows me to pester him from time to time. He related has seen this kind of thing a lot, though not on this scale, clearly. He told me about a few people who were so compelled to do what they simply HAD to do that the police couldn't help but catch them.

Particularly amusting was this.....A guy spent an entire night in a downtown area approaching women with buttoned down shirts and then proceeded to try and tear the front of shirt open, exposing their breats. His attempt came as people were making their way to baseball game around 630pm. He tried and failed four or five times after that. He was chased down the street by boyfriends and even a cop, at one point. They finally caught him right after the bars closed around 230am after he tried it one more time, got leveled by the girl's boyfriend, about twenty feet from a where a policeman was standing.

Yes, I do believe Lawende saw Kate and client, even though it was only a momentary glimpse. It was a rather rainy night and I don't think too many other couples would be choosing that location for an early morning chat.

On the balance of probabilities I think that the GSG was left by Jack near the apron as an anti-Semitic message. The fact it was left adjacent to a lodging house where many Jews lived, emphasises this.

See above bold.

[Rosella]

Incredible, Patrick! However, was the man your friend spoke of under the influence at all, of alcohol or any other substances?

Having said that, years ago a youth in one neighbourhood I lived in seemed compelled to take female underwear from washing lines. The whole neighbourhood knew it was him. He seemed normal in every way except for this fetish. It was said that his mother, with whom he lived would return the things the next day. This has nothing to do with Jack, of course, just an illustration of some unusual behaviour!

[Patrick S]

Incredible, Patrick! However, was the man your friend spoke of under the influence at all, of alcohol or any other substances?

Having said that, years ago a youth in one neighbourhood I lived in seemed compelled to take female underwear from washing lines. The whole neighbourhood knew it was him. He seemed normal in every way except for this fetish. It was said that his mother, with whom he lived would return the things the next day. This has nothing to do with Jack, of course, just an illustration of some unusual behaviour!

Forgot to mention that. No. He was sober as a judge. He was in his 40s. Lived with his parents. Didn't drink or do drugs. He told the cops he really liked to see them 'bounce' when he did that. He said there was a scene in the move 'Basic Instinct' where Michael Douglas did something like this to Jean Tripplehorn (my buddy knew because he actually had to watch it for the case). This guy told the police that he had purchased dozens of copies of that movie and only watched that part. Over and over and over again. Stayed up all night doing it.

[belinda]

Fact. Why? Everything I've learned since 1989
Yes
No

[Jon Guy]

He was in his 40s. Lived with his parents.

I think that`s all the explanation we need ...

[Pcdunn]

I wasn't aware there was controversy over the Double Event until I recently read Rumbelow's revised book, in which he indicated there were reasons to drop Stride as one of the Ripper's victims.

Despite that, I will go with the police of the era, who definitely believed the Double Event was a fact.
Yes, it is probable Lawende saw the Ripper.
Undecided on the GSG, but now leaning a bit more toward No.

[RivkahChaya]

WAS there a "Double Event" at all? Do you feel that Stride and Eddowes were both victims of "Jack the Ripper"? Why?

I go back and forth, but I lean toward no. Actually, I think the proximity counts against it: he couldn't have known that Eddowes would be in Mitre square, and high-tailed it there to meet her.

Do you believe that Joseph Lewende saw "Jack the Ripper"?

I don't know, because honestly, I think he didn't know. And I think that's the real reason he would identify him, not this "Jews protecting Jews" thing.

Do you believe that "The Ripper" left the graffito in Goulston Street?

Big fat "No!"

You didn't ask whether we think the real killer (or, either killer, as the case may be) wrote the "double event" post. I don't think so.

[packers stem]

Yes and both mistaken identity

Possibly but could have been any couple... Eddowes was not known to be a prostitute so it's not right to call him a client in my view

Yes,it wasn't worded in a graffiti way
If it said "it's the Jews what dun it guv" then maybe the antisemitic graffiti argument may carry some weight and the apron was in too close proximity. I try not to pass absolutely everything off as pure coincidence

[Rosemary]

My take

As to the 'double event:'. Yes, as another poster has stated, had they occurred on different nights, I'd think maybe not.

As to identity, yes, but considering lighting & weather conditions, sometimes I lean towards not sure.

As to Goulston street, no. Having asked both my spouse, a physician, & a friend, an ER trauma surgeon, as to the skill required, considering time & lighting restraints. I don't seem him walking away with knife in hand, organs wrapped in a piece of apron in a his pocket or a bag, then sitting down somewhere, taking the organs out & ?? tossing them in the gutter for an animal to eat or putting them back in his bag/pocket, wiping his hands on an apron already sticky with blood & possibly other body fluids (Errata, help, I've no idea what other kinds of fluid are present in that area of the female anatomy!) & with sticky hands calmly writing misspelled graffiti in an allegedly neat schoolboy handwriting.

[Pierre]

I know it's been done. But, in honor of the anniversary of the 'Double Event', I thought it may be an interesting exercise to discuss our thoughts with respect that night. I think the first question is obvious:

WAS there a "Double Event" at all? Do you feel that Stride and Eddowes were both victims of "Jack the Ripper"? Why?

Do you believe that Joseph Lewende saw "Jack the Ripper"?

Do you believe that "The Ripper" left the graffito in Goulston Street?

There was and yes they were. He had planned exactly this night for the double event and the reason for that was an event in his own life. All these murders were planned. He didn´t mutilate Stride because he needed to find the second victim without blood on him.

I don´t know if Lewende saw the killer.

He did write the graffito in Goulston Street and I know what he wanted to say with that. It is part of an important pattern connected to him.

Pierre