Did the 5 canonical victims know each other?

[perrymason]

We do know though Sam that some of the Canonical Group were known to frequent locations or areas to solicit, which in and of itself suggests that they would see some people in that area semi frequently.

As you pointed out once on here, Dock workers are the single largest occupational category at that time for the treatment of sexually transmitted diseases in local clinics. When they left work, they likely walked in all directions North from the Waterfront, most, probably using the same route home.

A whore might place herself at a station along a route such men might travel..thereby enhancing the chances that she would see the same people often.

I think it would be a mistake to imagine that the bulk of the men they serviced they did so only once. Likely many had "regulars."...sometimes like our pensioner story.

Best regards Sam

[Cap'n Jack]

Sam, what's the population of Ipswich?
Then divide that by the number of streetwalkers, 'unfortunates' if you like, and then tell me how in the recent murders of five 'unfortunates' they were all known to one another?
But we would not have known that if the police had not caught Wright for the murders.
It was only through Wright that the fact emerged that the victims were all known to one another.
As the Whitechapel Murders remain unsolved it is entirely possible that our reluctance to link the victims through familiarity is based on the lack of a viable killer.
So get the killer and then get the link that binds the victims.
It is also worth pointing out that the victims in the Ipswich murders were in exactly the same position as the victims of the Whitechapel Murders, as streetwalkers in search of substance... just the substance was different, but the victims in both crimes are identical.

[Mr.Hyde]

Put the "odds" away for the moment.
Consider the idea that these five women knew each other.
Things then fall into place.

[Malcolm X]

Put the "odds" away for the moment.
Consider the idea that these five women knew each other.
Things then fall into place.

you have a point, because everything falls into place if you believe it's the occult too................the Ripper seems to fit so many theories

[anna]

My Hyde...

Exactly!

ANNA.

[Sam Flynn]

Put the "odds" away for the moment.
Consider the idea that these five women knew each other.
Things then fall into place.

Well, they would, wouldn't they - if you're working backwards from a preconception. That's not the proper way to go about things.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, what's the population of Ipswich?

Wikipedia tells me 121,000 spread over a surface area of 15 square miles, or 8 persons per square mile. Contrast that with Spitalfields, whose population of circa 20,000 was crammed into an area of roughly 1.5 square miles - that's 13,000 people per square mile, or a population density 1,600 times greater than modern-day Ipswich.

Then divide that by the number of streetwalkers, 'unfortunates' if you like, and then tell me how in the recent murders of five 'unfortunates' they were all known to one another?

Because they were a small number of professional women, regularly working the same confined "strip", at specific times of day in a well-lit modern-day town. The casual unfortunates of Spitalfields were numerous, worked sporadically, at all hours, wandering the streets until they found someone to sponge off in one form or another, and did so in semi-darkness.

This is another reason why using the term "prostitutes" to describe the unfortunates of Spitalfields is misleading. Conditions were unimaginably different back then. The good news is that you don't need your imagination to begin to understand how different it must have been - you can "do the math", as they say.

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Well, they would, wouldn't they - if you're working backwards from a preconception. That's not the proper way to go about things.

Your Eminence,
One thing I learned in childhood-lot of puzzles are easy to solve backwards.
Abstract thought coupled with constructive reasoning are amazing tools.
You seem to lack both,
Dave.

[Sam Flynn]

We do know though Sam that some of the Canonical Group were known to frequent locations or areas to solicit

We don't though, Mike. The only "reliable" information we have on that point is about Kelly - with her "beat" down at Leman Street/Commercial Road, whatever. Unless I've missed something, we have no such information about where the others hung out - if, as "unfortunates", they had any particular "hangouts" at all.

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Wikipedia tells me 121,000 spread over a surface area of 15 square miles, or 8 persons per square mile. Contrast that with Spitalfields, whose population of circa 20,000 was crammed into an area of roughly 1.5 square miles - that's 13,000 people per square mile, or a population density 1,600 times greater than modern-day Ipswich.Because they were a small number of professional women, regularly working the same confined "strip", at specific times of day in a well-lit modern-day town. The casual unfortunates of Spitalfields were numerous, worked sporadically, at all hours, wandering the streets until they found someone to sponge off in one form or another, and did so in semi-darkness.

This is another reason why using the term "prostitutes" to describe the unfortunates of Spitalfields is misleading. Conditions were unimaginably different back then. The good news is that you don't need your imagination to begin to understand how different it must have been - you can "do the math", as they say.

Your Eminence,
Your "math" is pathetic,
Dave.
PS.Seems to be a long standing trend.

[Sam Flynn]

One thing I learned in childhood-lot of puzzles are easy to solve backwards.

This is no childish puzzle. It's an historic series of events that took place in the real world, a world which - like it or not - is governed by certain physical and mathematical constraints.

Abstract thought coupled with constructive reasoning are amazing tools.
You seem to lack both

Lateral thinking is one thing, simply conjuring up bollocks and then reading, or distorting, the evidence to suit your agenda is quite another.

The latter is not constructive reasoning. It's the adult equivalent of a child smearing its own faeces over the nursery wall and squealing with delight as it does so.

[perrymason]

I think to be fair to both sides of this coin, as AP suggested there may well be a connection that existed between the 5 women for all we know, its not impossible at all.... and as Sam suggests, its not like they all gathered at the Ten Bells each night then branched off their separate ways either. Theres nothing compelling that we know of that would create a scenario in which we can see that they knew each other...nor is there anything that would prevent them meeting, or having met.

When the population of an area is discussed in relation to this, we would never have all of the local population out in the streets at one time, so those numbers mislead. At any given time after midnight there were indeed lots of people around....but many can easily be identified for their trade that has them out late....prostitutes, butchers, shift workers, Dockers, Slaughterhouse men, market folks...

I dont think any of the women would be lost in a crowd each night and therefore less likely to bump into another of the Fab Five. They whored on the streets in a relatively small area, they all drank, a few were fighters, and some had partners who could have facilitated an introduction to someone they knew.

The bottom line is....and I agree with Sam on this.....we have zero evidence that suggests all 5 might have known each other, and the last way to figure this problem out is by assuming they did and working the theory from there.

If it was that easy I would have had a Canonical Four to work with long ago, and maybe whittled it to three or less by now.

Best regards all.

[Cap'n Jack]

Sam,
8 persons per square mile of modern Ipswich?
I want whatever it is you are taking.
You'll be aware, I hope Sam, that there are several reports on prostitution in Ipswich available on the net, published prior to the murders.
These show that the girls were working in exactly the same manner and fashion as the Whitechapel victims.
If you examine the home address of each individual victim in the Ipswich murders you'll find that there is no link between them, but then if you examine their working territory you'll quickly find that they must have known each other, for the pressure of their pimps and the police forced them to work in severely restricted areas, just like the Whitechapel girls.
I don't know why you are so wary of giving these girls a common purpose and fate, to me it seems obvious. That doesn't mean it's a conspiracy, just ripe old life.

[Mr.Hyde]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_thinking

[Sam Flynn]

Sam,
8 persons per square mile of modern Ipswich?
I want whatever it is you are taking.

It's called "Facto", AP - a new wonder drug. I heartily recommend it.