Nichols & Kelly Connection

[Natasha]

Hi All

Whilst reading about Polly on CB, I came across the following:

6/2/83-10/26/87 -- She is said to have been living with a man named Thomas Dew, a blacksmith, with a shop in York Mews, 15 York St., Walworth. In June 1886 she had attended the funeral of her brother who had been burned to death by the explosion of a paraffin lamp.

There has been a lot of investigative work that has been done on Kelly's husband. He died in an explosion, it's a bit coincidental that Polly's brother died in an explosion don't you think?

It would be interesting to find out more about Polly's brother.

Also I read on here that Kelly used to go down the Elephant & Castle to visit a friend. Another coincidence or is this a possible connection between Kelly & Nichols?

What do you think?

[jmenges]

Paraphrasing from Neal Sheldon's research as it appears in his book The Victims of Jack the Ripper:

Her brother, named after their father, Edward Walker, was badly burned on 31 May, 1886 when a paraffin lamp exploded in his house at 52 Coleman Road, Southhampton Street in Camberwell. His wife was present and, with the assistance of their lodger, put out the fire, but it was too late. He died of his injuries at Guy's Hospital the following day. The inquest was held on 3 June and the funeral on 5 June. It was at the funeral where Polly's father last saw her alive.

JM

[Natasha]

Paraphrasing from Neal Sheldon's research as it appears in his book The Victims of Jack the Ripper:

Her brother, named after their father, Edward Walker, was badly burned on 31 May, 1886 when a paraffin lamp exploded in his house at 52 Coleman Road, Southhampton Street in Camberwell. His wife was present and, with the assistance of their lodger, put out the fire, but it was too late. He died of his injuries at Guy's Hospital the following day. The inquest was held on 3 June and the funeral on 5 June. It was at the funeral where Polly's father last saw her alive.

JM

Hi JM

Thanks for the info

Interesting that Edward’s wife was called Mary.
I checked on the census, and couldn’t find her after 1881.

[jmenges]

Hi JM

Thanks for the info

Interesting that Edward’s wife was called Mary.

Yes quite a coincidence, it being such an unusual first name.


JM

[Natasha]

Yes quite a coincidence, it being such an unusual first name.


JM

I know it was a popular name!

Just trying to look at if all 5 are connected, then we can ascertain the motive. A motive that doesn't involve a royal conspiracy!

[MayBea]

I see what you mean, Natasha, about Mary and Polly.

If it wasn't a coincidence and Mary based her explosion story on Polly's, then she would have had to know her since the story only came out after Polly was killed.

I thought Mary might have known Annie from Knightsbridge as I recall Annie was a servant there at one time. But wouldn't she have mentioned it to Joe Barnett if she did know her, or any of the other victims?

[Natasha]

I see what you mean, Natasha, about Mary and Polly.

If it wasn't a coincidence and Mary based her explosion story on Polly's, then she would have had to know her since the story only came out after Polly was killed.

I thought Mary might have known Annie from Knightsbridge as I recall Annie was a servant there at one time. But wouldn't she have mentioned it to Joe Barnett if she did know her, or any of the other victims?

Hi MayBea

Yeah the Barnett thing mucks up the theory, but then again maybe he was conscious of the fact that he may be implicated in the serious of murders, if he mentions any connections with Polly especially in light of Kelly's death.

Having said that, I still think that my attempts made to uncover MJK's identity as that of a French woman by the name of Jeanne Gabrielle Kelly may be valid. If interested, you can analyze this candidate using the info here:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=301117

[MayBea]

If there is any pattern, I would think the victims were chosen based on location and location links them. Four of the locations suggest something religious other than just Whitechapel, Bucks Row suggesting the Ducking Pond for killing witches, Hanbury and the Salvation Army, Mitre Square, Jewish Working Men's Club...

Only Millers Court doesn't have any obvious religious connotation. So I think Mary breaks this pattern and was chosen because of who she was.

As for Jeanne Gabrielle Kelly, there's no evidence she came to England and she would have had to come as a child to lose her accent. Still, she's not eliminated without a living record or death record after Nov. 9, 1888.

I, like you, work on the starting premise that a candidate has to disappear after Mary's death.

[Natasha]

If there is any pattern, I would think the victims were chosen based on location and location links them. Four of the locations suggest something religious other than just Whitechapel, Bucks Row suggesting the Ducking Pond for killing witches, Hanbury and the Salvation Army, Mitre Square, Jewish Working Men's Club...

Only Millers Court doesn't have any obvious religious connotation. So I think Mary breaks this pattern and was chosen because of who she was.

As for Jeanne Gabrielle Kelly, there's no evidence she came to England and she would have had to come as a child to lose her accent. Still, she's not eliminated without a living record or death record after Nov. 9, 1888.

I, like you, work on the starting premise that a candidate has to disappear after Mary's death.

Hi MayBea,

You may have something there, with the connection of the victims. Looking at the maps, there seems to be churches near the murder sites.
There was an investigation into where the killer actually resided (based on the location of the murders), they reckon he lived in Flower & Dean street. It would be interesting to find out who lived there at the time of the murders.

Jeanne: her accent has crossed my mind, I just went on the possibility of her being moved here at a young age, as well as not being able to locate her whereabouts after 1888. Debra A said her father was a Dr, but I'm not sure if she's having a laugh. Will need to look further into this

[Natasha]

I may have made a mistake.

In the maps the murders appeared to have been committed near graveyards. I thought it was churches, because of the cross symbol.