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NEW Eddowes-Stride link & person of Interest

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  • NEW Eddowes-Stride link & person of Interest

    Hi all


    I believe I may have found another potential link between Eddowes and Stride.

    Before leaving Bishopsgate Police Station, Catherine Eddowes gave the name of Mary Kelly and her address as 6 Fashion Street.

    The reason for doing so, has never really been explained.

    And so why 6 Fashion Street?

    Having a check through the various census returns, it is apparent that 6 Fashion Street was a multi-occupancy building, but it would appear that over the years, on the ground floor, the address was run as a Shop.

    In the 1891 census, 3 years after the canonical Ripper murders we have several occupiers of the address.
    One family in particular is the Silverman family.

    We find a man named...
    Mark(s) Silverman and his wife Rachel Silverman (nee Bernstein)
    Mark(s) is 39, Rachel is 36... (although their age is listed as the same in the next census of 1901)
    That would make him 36 at the time of the murders.
    Both are Polish (Russian) Jews.
    They married in 1874.
    They have several children on the census, all born in London
    Rachel's mother, also called Rachel is living with them

    Mark(s) Silverman is a "Stick Dresser and Chandler's Shop Keeper"
    A Stick Dresser refers specifically to a person who makes and designs Walking Sticks.

    His daughter Jane Leah Silverman aged 16 works as his assistant at the shop. (Jane later marries a man named George Silverton in 1899)

    Now...

    By itself, that data means nothing in terms of the Ripper case or any potential connection to Eddowes, and certainly not Stride.

    However, in digging a little deeper, I was surprised to find that at the same time of the 1891 census, there was another man named Abraham Silverman, living with his wife and young family at a certain address nearer to the murder site of Elizabeth Stride.

    One of the houses in the Stable Yard of 40 Berner Street to be exact, ergo, the place where Stride was murdered 2 and a half years prior.

    We have the following...

    Abraham Silverman aged 21, a Fancy Purse Maker, living with his wife and 2 young children.
    Abraham is also a Polish Jew (Russian)

    There is also a widow named Katie Bernstein living at 40 Berner Street, although the words "stable yard" are not listed for her residence.

    We therefore have 2 Silverman families living at 6 Fashion Street, the given address of Eddowes, and one of the houses inside the yard where Stride was murdered.
    We also have a widow named Bernstein at 40 Berner Street and the mother-in-law of Marks Silverman, also called Bernstein, living with him and his family at 6 Fashion Street.

    Interesingly, Abraham's son was also called Marks....and his son was possibly the same Marks Silverman who at age 16 viciously stabbed another boy aged 13, 3 times in the back over a petty dispute. The boy survived.

    Note that...
    Matthew Packer is still there at 44 Berner Street in 1891
    Fanny Mortimer (Mangle-woman) is still there at 36 Berner Street in 1891 - interestingly for her place of birth, it states... "Don't Know" (England)

    The Berner Street Club didn't close until 1892 and would therefore still be operational at the time of the 1891 census.

    In addition, we also have a tailor called "Israel Goldstein" living at 40 Berner Street.
    He lives with his family
    As an aside, it did make me wonder whether there was any significance to his name "Israel Goldstein"...in the amalgamation of Israel Schwartz and Leon Goldstein, and despite a different occupation, whether Goldstein was seen by Mortimer, that he was intending to go home, but witnessed the attack on Stride, the moment Mortimer witnessed him looking up at the club, and instead had to divert across the road and go south; remarkably similar to Israel Schwartz's route, who has never been traced.

    But i digress...

    Going back to Marks Silverman, the family by 1901 had relocated and moved to 117 Green Street in Bethnal Green.

    But here's where things become rather interesting...

    On 14th August 1902, A Marks Silverman aged 53 (born circa 1849/1850) is found to have been residing at the Napsbury Mental Asylum and is listed as a "Lunatic"
    This record also states that he was transferred from Bethnal Green before his incarciration, and coincidentally a year earlier in 1901 Marks Silverman Stick Maker, is indeed at 117 Green Street, Bethnal Green.
    There's also a mention of Edmonton on the record...we will come to that shortly...

    This is likely to be (but not confirmed) the same Marks Silverman....

    On the 14th 1906 Marks Silverman, Stickmaker, goes into the Mile End workhouse, but the duration of his stay is unknown at present.

    I believe that the 1902 lunatic inmate is the same Marks because then In the 1911 census, Marks Silverman is an inmate at the "Jewish Home and Hospital for Incurables" situated in Tottenham High Road, South Tottenham.
    This then ties into the Edmonton link from the 1902 record.

    This home was established for poor Jewish immigrants with permanent chronic disease, those who had suffered from an accident, or those with a physical disability.

    Another tantalizing clue is the 1911 census for his wife Rachel Silverman...on the record it has Marks name scribbled through and at the end it states of Mark Silverman...
    "Home of Lunacy?(ineligible) Afflicted, Incurable"

    The question is, was Marks condition simply a physical impairment or was he a lunatic who suffered from mental ill health?

    Mark Silverman appears to have died on 26th March 1913, although this is yet to be cross-referenced, although his wife Rachel is listed as a widow by the time of the 1921 census.

    To summarize, when you consider the idea that a Polish Jew (Russian) stick maker named Marks Silverman, who married a Rachel Bernstein; who together ran a Chandler's shop at 6 Fashion Street, the same address given by Eddowes hours before she was murdered, and then we find another Silverman named Abraham and a Katie Bernstein located at the same location Stride was murdered in Berner Street, then that in itself potentially raises a few questions, especially when you consider that the same Marks Silverman definitely suffered from an incurable illness and spent time in the Jewish Hospital and workhouse, and possibly the Nasbury lunatic asylum (6 days only before being "abandoned")

    There are points against though. For instance, Abraham Silverman appears to have arrived in Berner Street post 1888, based on his oldest child not being listed as being born in London.
    This is also based on the 1891 census and beyond and so 2 and a half years AFTER the murders.

    I guess it depends on how much you believe in coincidences, and whether there's a chance that Marks Silverman could have been the same lunatic who was deemed incurable. If this is the case, then what form did that lunacy take?
    He was aged somewhere between 35 and 38 at the time of the Ripper murders and so his age also fits within the parameters of the Ripper

    I am not saying he is in any way connected to the murders, but let's allow ourselves to dabble a little on this while we are here...

    For example, is there a route from Mitre Square back to Fashion Street via Goulston Street?

    I also find it rather quirky that Abberline and his colleagues were all given a Walking Stick...can you imagine if the man tasked with making them was Marks Silverman himself?

    So i put it to you all the tantalizing question...

    Could Marks Silverman; a man completely unheard of (to my humble knowledge) have been the Ripper?
    The man who ran a Chandler's shop at 6 Fashion Street; the address that Eddowes gave, perhaps as a clue to the killer's identity. After all, it was alleged that she claimed to have known who the Ripper was.

    Why give that address specifically?

    And IS Silverman the missing link to the reason behind Stride's choice of murder site?

    Was Stride there in Dutfileds Yard because of Silverman; and not just because of the club?

    I am undertaking further extensive research as we speak, but of course, your expert input, guidance, opinions, and advice are always welcome...
    Thoughts and feedback, please?


    RD
    Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 11-05-2023, 01:17 PM.
    "Great minds, don't think alike"

  • #2
    Serial killers are unlikely to kill someone who could easily be linked to them, for example by address.

    The Whitechapel Murderer seems to have selected all his victims from streetwalkers.

    The only victim of his whose address he must have known was Mary Jane Kelly, and that was presumably only on the night of the murder.

    The names Silverman, Bernstein, Schwartz, and Goldstein, were very common among European Jews.

    As for the name Abrahams, I refer you to

    #32, The Bell Club incident, and the 1887 attack on Aaron Abrahams

    which I posted eight months ago, in which I refuted Rob House's claim that it is likely that a certain Aaron Abrahams was actually Aaron Kosminski, as well as his claim that the Aaron Abrahams in question had committed an assault.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1 View Post
      Serial killers are unlikely to kill someone who could easily be linked to them, for example by address.

      The Whitechapel Murderer seems to have selected all his victims from streetwalkers.

      The only victim of his whose address he must have known was Mary Jane Kelly, and that was presumably only on the night of the murder.

      The names Silverman, Bernstein, Schwartz, and Goldstein, were very common among European Jews.

      As for the name Abrahams, I refer you to

      #32, The Bell Club incident, and the 1887 attack on Aaron Abrahams

      which I posted eight months ago, in which I refuted Rob House's claim that it is likely that a certain Aaron Abrahams was actually Aaron Kosminski, as well as his claim that the Aaron Abrahams in question had committed an assault.
      I made no mention of a man with a Surname Abrahams and he bears no relevance to my own findings.

      The man i mentioned was called Abraham Silverman and so I have no idea why you mentioned Aaron Abrahams.

      The Surname Abrahams was never mentioned in my post


      RD
      "Great minds, don't think alike"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

        I made no mention of a man with a Surname Abrahams and he bears no relevance to my own findings.

        The man i mentioned was called Abraham Silverman and so I have no idea why you mentioned Aaron Abrahams.

        The Surname Abrahams was never mentioned in my post


        RD


        I know.

        I mentioned Abrahams because it was another common Jewish surname in the East End of London and Rob House obviously underestimated how common it was.

        I tried searching for the name Silverman on a British births, deaths, and marriages database, and got the following result:

        Sorry, that search found 5144 matches and the maximum number that can be displayed is 3000.

        I believe you have similarly underestimated how common the name Silverman was.

        As for the surname Abrahams, when I searched for that, the result was:

        Sorry, that search found 28635 matches and the maximum number that can be displayed is 3000.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1 View Post



          I know.

          I mentioned Abrahams because it was another common Jewish surname in the East End of London and Rob House obviously underestimated how common it was.

          I tried searching for the name Silverman on a British births, deaths, and marriages database, and got the following result:

          Sorry, that search found 5144 matches and the maximum number that can be displayed is 3000.

          I believe you have similarly underestimated how common the name Silverman was.

          As for the surname Abrahams, when I searched for that, the result was:

          Sorry, that search found 28635 matches and the maximum number that can be displayed is 3000.
          Assuming your search was based on obvious contextual parameters, then that's a lot of Silverman individuals connected with the East End and within the relevant time frame.

          For example, it would not be worth including an Ella Silverman from Oldham who died in 1854, because that would obviously not be contextually relevant whatsoever to my own research findings.

          ​The issue with including all the individuals as part of an all round general search, means that the search results are automatically inflated and become nonsensical and very misleading.

          Based on your search results, it would at first glance seem to indicate that Silverman and Abrahams were the most common names in London.

          I admire your attempt to defuse the impact of my findings; it's all part of the game on this site, but it has the adverse effect with me.
          I find that the posts that are really worth taking seriously, are the ones that appear to be shut down from the off.

          You know you're onto something when the initial response has no direct contextual relevance to the initial post, and is simply a tool to divert and distract from the importance of the initial line of questioning.

          I believe I MAY have found a link between Eddowes and Stride and I know that's worth taking seriously.

          The information written in my post is sound, and anything that has not been cross referenced I have specifically highlighted.

          I am not saying I have found anything definitive or compelling, but the questions set out in my post are based on data which requires serious consideration and analysis.

          ​​​​​It may all be for nothing but the link IS there if you read and analyse the wording of the post correctly and with an open mind set.

          ​​​Thank you for your response though


          RD
          Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 11-05-2023, 06:41 PM.
          "Great minds, don't think alike"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

            Assuming your search was based on obvious contextual parameters, then that's a lot of Silverman individuals connected with the East End and within the relevant time frame.

            RD


            5,144 people in a UK database with the surname Silverman are a lot of Silverman individuals with or without your assumptions.

            It was, as I pointed out, a common surname among European Jews.

            28,635 people in a UK database with the surname Abrahams are a whopping lot of Abrahams individuals with or without your assumptions.

            Contrary to your insinuation, I am not playing a game.

            When you point out that two people living at different addresses had the same surname Silverman, t​hat is no big deal, any more than Rob House's discovery of another Aaron Abrahams.​

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1 View Post

              When you point out that two people living at different addresses had the same surname Silverman, t​hat is no big deal, any more than Rob House's discovery of another Aaron Abrahams.​
              Ah, but it IS a big deal when ONE of those addresses was the address given to police by a woman who ended up being murdered the same night (morning) and the OTHER address the location where another woman was murdered less than 2 hours before the other woman...and BOTH believed to be by the very same KILLER.

              THAT'S my point!

              Whether there are 2647 Silvermans, 3643 Goldsteins 2671 Cohens or 235 Humperdinks... that isn't the relevant point here.

              And my apologies for making it sound that you were playing a game,; I meant more in general a tactic employed by some. But I do accept It didn't read that way, and so I apologize unreservedly for any unintended misunderstanding to the generalized meaning of my statement.

              I do appreciate your feedback, but with respect I would ask you to read the data from my initial post again, but incorporating the actual point I am trying to make.

              Regards


              RD
              Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 11-06-2023, 01:22 AM.
              "Great minds, don't think alike"

              Comment


              • #8
                My main issue so far is the lack of any tangible connection between the two Silverman families.

                I don't agree with PI often, but on this specific point I must.
                Sharing a common surname does not show a connection.

                You have a idea RD, and you need to check to see if there are any actual links, to allow that idea to develop further.

                The illness is interesting but is from over 10 years after the murders.



                Steve
                Last edited by Elamarna; 11-06-2023, 02:48 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                  My main issue so far is the lack of any tangible connection between the two Silverman families.

                  I don't agree with PI often, but on this specific point I must.
                  Sharing a common surname does not show a connection.

                  You have a idea RD, and you need to check to see if there are any actual links, to allow that idea to develop further.

                  The illness is interesting but is from over 10 years after the murders.



                  Steve
                  Thank you for your response.

                  Yes I agree with you that seeing whether there's a definitive link between the 2 Silverman families is crucial if there's any relative credence to my findings.

                  I am in the process of digging a little deeper and will see where the evidence takes me.

                  A brilliant post and a very balanced and well constructed view point

                  RD
                  "Great minds, don't think alike"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Great research but I always thought that Eddowes gave the name “ Mary Ann Kelly “ and her address as “Dorset Street “ ? Maybe I’m wrong on this and someone will correct me .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My error , you’re correct …don’t know where I got that from I need to read more

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
                        Hi all


                        I believe I may have found another potential link between Eddowes and Stride.

                        Before leaving Bishopsgate Police Station, Catherine Eddowes gave the name of Mary Kelly and her address as 6 Fashion Street.

                        The reason for doing so, has never really been explained.

                        And so why 6 Fashion Street?

                        Having a check through the various census returns, it is apparent that 6 Fashion Street was a multi-occupancy building, but it would appear that over the years, on the ground floor, the address was run as a Shop.

                        In the 1891 census, 3 years after the canonical Ripper murders we have several occupiers of the address.
                        One family in particular is the Silverman family.

                        We find a man named...
                        Mark(s) Silverman and his wife Rachel Silverman (nee Bernstein)
                        Mark(s) is 39, Rachel is 36... (although their age is listed as the same in the next census of 1901)
                        That would make him 36 at the time of the murders.
                        Both are Polish (Russian) Jews.
                        They married in 1874.
                        They have several children on the census, all born in London
                        Rachel's mother, also called Rachel is living with them


                        Abraham Silverman aged 21, a Fancy Purse Maker, living with his wife and 2 young children.
                        Abraham is also a Polish Jew (Russian)

                        There is also a widow named Katie Bernstein living at 40 Berner Street, although the words "stable yard" are not listed for her residence.

                        We therefore have 2 Silverman families living at 6 Fashion Street, the given address of Eddowes, and one of the houses inside the yard where Stride was murdered.
                        We also have a widow named Bernstein at 40 Berner Street and the mother-in-law of Marks Silverman, also called Bernstein, living with him and his family at 6 Fashion Street.
                        I find the name combo of Silverman / Bernstein in either both households or close proximity intriquing. . . .

                        Any way of discovering the husband of widow Katie Berstein? And the husband of the older Rachel Bernstein?

                        Interesting . . .

                        curious

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rookie. I don't know if your ideas will lead you to where you'd like them to, but I'm glad you have them and are willing to see them through. Just try not to marry yourself to any of them.

                          Yours truly,

                          Tom Wescott

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                            Rookie. I don't know if your ideas will lead you to where you'd like them to, but I'm glad you have them and are willing to see them through. Just try not to marry yourself to any of them.

                            Yours truly,

                            Tom Wescott
                            Thank you Tom, I appreciate your advice and am grateful for your response. I agree wholeheartedly with your message.

                            Many thanks


                            RD
                            "Great minds, don't think alike"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by curious View Post

                              I find the name combo of Silverman / Bernstein in either both households or close proximity intriquing. . . .

                              Any way of discovering the husband of widow Katie Berstein? And the husband of the older Rachel Bernstein?

                              Interesting . . .

                              curious
                              Yes, I agree that the multi-coincidence is particularly interesting.

                              In terms of Kate's deceased husband and Rachel Bernstein's (Senior) husband; there are several possibilities for both, but I have been unable to find anything definitive thus far and so have refrained from posting until I have managed to cross-reference and confirm the correct data from multiple sources.

                              Work in progress.

                              Please feel free to search and update me if you find anything conclusive; as I always believe that this is a team effort and there's strength in numbers when it comes to delving in relatively new angles of research.

                              We have at the very least a potential link between the address that Eddowes gave the night she was murdered, with the location of the murder of Stride, who was murdered around the same time (APPROXIMATE) that Eddowes was giving that said information at the police station.
                              Marks Silverman suffered from mental health issues that caused him to be incarcerated, and that MAY also be an important aspect; because it at least confirms that he was of unsound mind and "incurable."

                              Lots to ponder


                              RD
                              "Great minds, don't think alike"

                              Comment

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