Blood - too much or little ?

[Dickere]

No problem. I suppose it would be very situation dependent. For example, if her clothes around her neck resulted in the throat wound being "inside" her clothing (i.e. the collar is over the wound somewhat), then the blood would flow to the inside of the clothes, most getting soaked up, and only flowing to the cobbles once sufficiently saturated.

Or, depending upon the road conditions, the natural flow might have been to follow a course between the cobbles that went under the body, which would result in much of the blood getting soaked up.

Obviously, we can't examine any of those speculations, and we do have to rely upon the interpretations of those who were there. We might wonder about how they came to their conclusions, of course, but just because we might think they could be wrong doesn't mean we can then say "Which means my alternative idea must bewhat really happened! ..." That's an error too easy to make - sure we might think the original idea could be wrong, but that is a far cry from knowing it is wrong - moreover, if it is wrong, then our "alternative" idea is nothing but a guess because now we have nothing, not even a contemporary opinion, to base our guess upon! So is in all likelihood we're wrong as well and we might as well give up because the only information we have we've decided is unreliable, so we've now got nothing at all.

- Jeff

Yes that all makes sense of course, thanks.

The simple fact that the lack of blood at the scene was noted at the time is interesting in itself though, isn't it ? People of the time, used to the conditions etc, noted a lack of blood in this case strikes me as something out of the ordinary for them.

[Michael W Richards]

When it comes to whether the body was moved from the place where the women were actually killed I agree with the sentiments that with the noise factor of carts and horses its unlikely in Pollys case. There are some differences in the Mitre square location however that may factor into that question. The fact that there were vacant warehouse locations in that square, and the fact that the men involved in the Post Office Robbery that weekend were in that immediate area at the time of the murder. Could she have been carried by several men? Not impossible in my opinion. It might also help explain why the wounds themselves seem less "professional" than Annies, if they were inexperienced men in a hurry.

[JeffHamm]

Yes that all makes sense of course, thanks.

The simple fact that the lack of blood at the scene was noted at the time is interesting in itself though, isn't it ? People of the time, used to the conditions etc, noted a lack of blood in this case strikes me as something out of the ordinary for them.

Yes, it is important to note their views, but as they eventually explained that observation as the blood being soaked up by her clothing, I think we also have to go with that. What else can we do, really? There's no way we can make our own examinations while they actually did.

- Jeff

[Dickere]

Yes, it is important to note their views, but as they eventually explained that observation as the blood being soaked up by her clothing, I think we also have to go with that. What else can we do, really? There's no way we can make our own examinations while they actually did.

- Jeff

No, but we can't prove much at all, if anything, from this distance. It's just about throwing up points of interest to discuss - I'm pleased you're doing so thanks

[JeffHamm]

No, but we can't prove much at all, if anything, from this distance. It's just about throwing up points of interest to discuss - I'm pleased you're doing so thanks

Fair enough. I agree that we can't prove much anymore, and the best we can do is think of questions for which answers will never be known unless new evidence surfaces from somewhere. I still hope the missing suspects file will be found, but it is not looking good.

- Jeff

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

When it comes to whether the body was moved from the place where the women were actually killed I agree with the sentiments that with the noise factor of carts and horses its unlikely in Pollys case. There are some differences in the Mitre square location however that may factor into that question. The fact that there were vacant warehouse locations in that square, and the fact that the men involved in the Post Office Robbery that weekend were in that immediate area at the time of the murder. Could she have been carried by several men? Not impossible in my opinion. It might also help explain why the wounds themselves seem less "professional" than Annies, if they were inexperienced men in a hurry.

Welcome back Michael! Been a while.

[Michael W Richards]

Welcome back Michael! Been a while.

Thanks for that Mr Bundy. I missed ya'll.

[Mark J D]

Perhaps she was inside at 6 Mitre Street before being moved into Mitre Square.

Dave,

As you know, I'm interested in the highly detailed work you've done on this.

Can I ask: what really convinces you that Eddowes was moved to 'murder corner' after she was killed?

For the record, I too suspect that she was; but I don't have much more than gut instinct and a scenario that makes sense to me alone...

Thanks,

Mark D.

[Abby Normal]

Didnt one of the drs sketches of Eddowes at the scene show pools of blood and or bodily fluids?

[DJA]

Dave,

As you know, I'm interested in the highly detailed work you've done on this.

Can I ask: what really convinces you that Eddowes was moved to 'murder corner' after she was killed?

For the record, I too suspect that she was; but I don't have much more than gut instinct and a scenario that makes sense to me alone...

Thanks,

Mark D.

Mark J D,

The cholesterol removed from her eyes required a small scalpel and light,so she was murdered indoors.

Also Sutton would have gotten the "Nothing" information from her in the ground floor living room.It was a small room.He could hear the beat cops pass the front door,even though he was partially deaf in his left ear.

Thank You,

Dave.

[DJA]

Didnt one of the drs sketches of Eddowes at the scene show pools of blood and or bodily fluids?

There you go Abby.

[Scott Nelson]

Dave,

You've never fully answered how Sutton was supposed to get Eddowes out to the corner of the square from #6? And how did the wooden partition (locked gate?) work? Did he push her out the back window, jump out himself and unlock the gate from inside the courtyard area? If he did that, wouldn't he have to lock the gate again from the inside and climb back through the window?

Otherwise how could he leave the square without locking the gate, or was it self-locking when pushed shut?

[Abby Normal]

There you go Abby.

thanks dja .so there goes not enough blood theory?

[DJA]

thanks dja .so there goes not enough blood theory?

Hi Abby

There was no blood spray at all,not even on the front of her clothes.
Unlikely that she was killed in the square proper.

"By Mr. Crawford: There was no blood on the front of the clothes. There was not a speck of blood on the front of the jacket."

[DJA]

Dave,

You've never fully answered how Sutton was supposed to get Eddowes out to the corner of the square from #6? And how did the wooden partition (locked gate?) work? Did he push her out the back window, jump out himself and unlock the gate from inside the courtyard area? If he did that, wouldn't he have to lock the gate again from the inside and climb back through the window?

Um .... yep!

Reckon that you know that picture is a relatively new one that does not show the gate as it was.