Of the five canonical victims, which one elicits your strongest EMOTIONAL response?

[Ms Diddles]

I voted for mary but they all do-very much so, the little we know about them their humanity, humor and kindness in tough situation really hits me hard. other than the whodunnit aspect of the case, my love and sympathy for the victims is what interests me the most.

Thanks Abby and well said!

[Guest]

I feel sorry for all of them because now forever they're associated with this sicko. We put pictures of them here on this website. But how would you like to have your murdered face put up for people to leer at forever? So I suppose to answer the question Mary Kelly, imagine if that was you? Not but now in 3d and high resolution, yeah great as low handclap from me.

I'm no better, i put extensive details of Ellen Bury's autopsy following her murder, the cannocial victim few people know about but very much a ripper murder.
I would choose her if this was recognised for what it was she suffered horrific abuse before her murder.

[etenguy]

Hi All,
I would be really interested to know, given your understanding of the victims lives and deaths, which of the victim mortuary / crime scene photographs evokes the strongest emotional response from you and why?

For the sheer horror of the mutilations, Annie, Kate and Mary all evoke strong emotions. Elizabeth and Polly were spared severe desecration of their bodies. All murdered violently though and each deserving of our thoughts and prayers.

For your project, I voted for Polly - so pleased with her jolly bonnet - she thought she'd soon be back. And then she was found so soon after her death mistaken for a piece of rubbish in the street. There was the added cruelty of just being left where she was found by Lechmere and Paul that I have always found heartbreaking.

[drstrange169]

>> I would be interested to know a bit about the different ways in which the individual victims tug at your heart strings. <<

With Polly, it’s the sliding doors moment when, having been lucky enough to be picked for the new Peabody Buildings, it all goes so wrong. Either she started problem drinking because her husband was having an affair or he had an affair because of her problem drinking.
It’s as if you can see the multiverse divide into two different futures.

Annie seems to me a doomed woman. Whereas, I feel like Polly had a divided future, I feel Annie was always destined to her road, not victim of jtr, but the downward spiral. She was going to die, probably in 1888 or close to it, anyway. The heartfelt moment for me was the already sick Annie fighting over the soap.

My moment for Elizabeth, was her move to the big city in Sweden. It seems to me to be both her downfall and rise in a very strange way. She seems to have been the smartest of the five. Her troubles in Sweden seem to have made her a streetwise survivor by the time she lands in England.

With Catherine, she strikes me as always having the street smarts Elizabeth learned. She seems like the confirmed good time girl, who was going to make the best of the bad in her life. She may well have gone with jtr with a happy heart. Does it get more heart felt than that!

Mary is a mystery. A blank page we can write whatever we want. That fact and the appalling nature of her main legacy, the two photo's, are what drives most people towards singling her out from the others. For me that makes her the hardest to know how to feel about, because any feelings I have, are driven solely by those photos, not the person.

>> I will pm you some info about the project when I get a mo later.<<

I'd like that, thanks.

[Enigma]

There is poignancy about Catherine and the timing of it all which elicits my sympathy for her. Had the police released her either a few minutes earlier or a few minutes later than they did, there is every chance she would not have encountered JtR.

[Ms Diddles]

For the sheer horror of the mutilations, Annie, Kate and Mary all evoke strong emotions. Elizabeth and Polly were spared severe desecration of their bodies. All murdered violently though and each deserving of our thoughts and prayers.

For your project, I voted for Polly - so pleased with her jolly bonnet - she thought she'd soon be back. And then she was found so soon after her death mistaken for a piece of rubbish in the street. There was the added cruelty of just being left where she was found by Lechmere and Paul that I have always found heartbreaking.

Thanks for that Eten!

[Ms Diddles]

I feel sorry for all of them because now forever they're associated with this sicko. We put pictures of them here on this website. But how would you like to have your murdered face put up for people to leer at forever? So I suppose to answer the question Mary Kelly, imagine if that was you? Not but now in 3d and high resolution, yeah great as low handclap from me.

I'm no better, i put extensive details of Ellen Bury's autopsy following her murder, the cannocial victim few people know about but very much a ripper murder.
I would choose her if this was recognised for what it was she suffered horrific abuse before her murder.

Thanks Wiggins!

I agree that Ellen Bury must have suffered horribly too.

I take on board what you say about the pictures.

We made the decision right at the outset not to include them, although for myself, I do really rate Richard's 3D constructions.

They are brilliantly executed and I find they help me to understand the spaces and locations better.

[Ms Diddles]

>> I would be interested to know a bit about the different ways in which the individual victims tug at your heart strings. <<

With Polly, it’s the sliding doors moment when, having been lucky enough to be picked for the new Peabody Buildings, it all goes so wrong. Either she started problem drinking because her husband was having an affair or he had an affair because of her problem drinking.
It’s as if you can see the multiverse divide into two different futures.

Annie seems to me a doomed woman. Whereas, I feel like Polly had a divided future, I feel Annie was always destined to her road, not victim of jtr, but the downward spiral. She was going to die, probably in 1888 or close to it, anyway. The heartfelt moment for me was the already sick Annie fighting over the soap.

My moment for Elizabeth, was her move to the big city in Sweden. It seems to me to be both her downfall and rise in a very strange way. She seems to have been the smartest of the five. Her troubles in Sweden seem to have made her a streetwise survivor by the time she lands in England.

With Catherine, she strikes me as always having the street smarts Elizabeth learned. She seems like the confirmed good time girl, who was going to make the best of the bad in her life. She may well have gone with jtr with a happy heart. Does it get more heart felt than that!

Mary is a mystery. A blank page we can write whatever we want. That fact and the appalling nature of her main legacy, the two photo's, are what drives most people towards singling her out from the others. For me that makes her the hardest to know how to feel about, because any feelings I have, are driven solely by those photos, not the person.

>> I will pm you some info about the project when I get a mo later.<<

I'd like that, thanks.

Thanks Dusty!

I have my own perceptions of the victims, so it's really interesting to hear someone else's too.

I dropped you a quick pm yesterday.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I know that it’s not directly in line with the purpose of the thread but it’s ‘interesting’ how the victims are always portrayed in drama. A perfect example is how Annie Chapman was portrayed in A Study In Scarlet (a Holmes film and so one of my favourites) by a young Barbara Windsor. Hardly accurate casting but consistent with the need that’s apparently felt to make them more attractive; to avoid shining too strong a light onto the reality of their lives and the physical and psychological effects that it had on them.

[John Wheat]

I voted Mary Jane Kelly. Largely because of how badly she was mutilated. However all the victims elicit a strong emotional response. May they all R.I.P.

[Ms Diddles]

I know that it’s not directly in line with the purpose of the thread but it’s ‘interesting’ how the victims are always portrayed in drama. A perfect example is how Annie Chapman was portrayed in A Study In Scarlet (a Holmes film and so one of my favourites) by a young Barbara Windsor. Hardly accurate casting but consistent with the need that’s apparently felt to make them more attractive; to avoid shining too strong a light onto the reality of their lives and the physical and psychological effects that it had on them.

Excellent point, Herlock!

All tangents are welcome!

We're doing some bits looking at depictions of Jack in films and graphic novels etc so that can be extended to the victims too.

I haven't seen the aforementioned version of A Study in Scarlet.

Babs as Annie! Whatever next? Charles Hawtrey as Broad Shouldered Man??!!

I'll need to have a look online and see if I can find it.

[Ms Diddles]

I voted Mary Jane Kelly. Largely because of how badly she was mutilated. However all the victims elicit a strong emotional response. May they all R.I.P.

Thanks John!

[Ms Diddles]

From posts on here it seems that the photographs elicit strong reactions of sadness and sympathy.

Does anyone feel anything else?

Anger?

Pity?

Fear?

Anything more obscure?

I know that when I first saw the MJK pictures I felt a sense of disorientation (I think because it took a while for my brain to work out what I was actually looking at).

Now I am more familiar with them, the Millers Court pictures make me feel kinda claustrophobic.



***Sorry, it occurred to me that this is a bit like one of those dreadful exercises that you have to do at work in "reflective practice" sessions, where you write down words on brightly coloured post-it-notes and then talk rubbish about them. I hate such activities!!


Please bear with me. I'm just batting random ideas around here.......

[barnflatwyngarde]

I voted for Mary Jane, simply because of the horror that the killer not only brutally murdered her, but seemed intent in obliterating her as a human being.

A double tragedy perhaps!

[Ms Diddles]

I voted for Mary Jane, simply because of the horror that the killer not only brutally murdered her, but seemed intent in obliterating her as a human being.

A double tragedy perhaps!

Thanks, Barn!