Did Jack only kill 3?

[Abby Normal]

Hello Mr O

I agree, I don`t think having kids would have deterred Suttcliffe but his marriage was not right, and kids were never on the cards forthe Sutcliffe`s, unlike Charles "Walton" Cross.

I`m pretty sure Sutcliffe ever killed anyone whilst out in his lorry, and he would often return from a trip during darkness. He put false plates on his car rather than using the works lorry to circle the red light area.

In fact, as I suspect you know, Sutcliffe`s car was part of his MO, as he would ask the prossie to get in the back for intercourse and whack them on the head from behind as they climbed in the back.

He`s not like Cross, at all. But he`s the only serial killer we could compare with the Ripper.

Hi Jon

No-he certainly is not like Cross. I agree with that. He had a car and even if he did kill on his way to work, he had a mobile bolt hole, unlike Lech.

But he`s the only serial killer we could compare with the Ripper.

[/QUOTE]
Check out William Suff the Riverside (CA) Prostitute Killer. Hes about as close as you can come to the ripper.

[Fisherman]

I would humbly submit that since we do not know WHAT the Ripper was, we cannot tell who of the known serial killers are "close" to him. Not at all, in fact. We can only compare the respective outcome of their deeds, the results of their murderous attacks - but we cannot compare two men out of whom we know only one.

Edward Gingrich serves as a counterpart to Suff, if you will, Abby - he was nothing like William Suff as a person, but he produced a slaying that comes very close to what happened to Kelly. Whether that makes him something we can call "close" to the Ripper is another thing altogether.

The best,
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi all,Jon Fisherman etc

You all provide good examples mapping out what these individuals get up to, and I think you'll agree that JTR pretty much fits the bill where a compulsive serial killer is concerned.

Of course, if you forgive me for stating the obvious, they are all individuals, and subsequently there will be differences from person to person.

Regards

Observer

[Fisherman]

Not only do I forgive you for pointing that out, Observer; I very much commend you for doing so, since this point seems to get lost every now and then.

The best,
Fisherman

[harry]

While the possibility of interuption was present in all the murders committed,though less so in Kelly's case,there is at least ,in the case of Stride,good information that a person did happen on to the scene,at a time and in a manner,that suggests an interuption could have prevented further injuries to her person.I believe the term serial to be destructive when applied to the Whitechapel murders.I prefer the term multiple killer, and it can be argued strongly,that such a person was active in Whitechapel in the latter half of 1888,and possibly later.

[Michael W Richards]

While the possibility of interuption was present in all the murders committed,though less so in Kelly's case,there is at least ,in the case of Stride,good information that a person did happen on to the scene,at a time and in a manner,that suggests an interuption could have prevented further injuries to her person.I believe the term serial to be destructive when applied to the Whitechapel murders.I prefer the term multiple killer, and it can be argued strongly,that such a person was active in Whitechapel in the latter half of 1888,and possibly later.

Hi Harry,

But that is precisely what scholars on serial killers do, isnt it? They refer to killers as serial even though they kill multiple victims over, often, substantial periods of time. On that vein I could see the man that killed Polly and Annie later killing Alice, they are quite similar deaths in my humble opinion.

Stride is uncharacteristic and is hard to align with any other murder of the period, primarily due to its simplicity, and to-date, its baffling motive.

The only story that allows for an interruption is Louis's, and according to Blackwell Liz could have been cut on that spot as early as 12:46am. And 3 witnesses the night of the murder, 2 from that club, stated they saw the body near to 12:45am.

The only thing that is interrupted in the Stride murder is the Ripper "series".

Best regards Harry

[Bridewell]

On that vein I could see the man that killed Polly and Annie later killing Alice, they are quite similar deaths in my humble opinion.

And mine. I was beginning to think that I was the only one.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Tom_Wescott]

Project Turdburger

Stride is uncharacteristic and is hard to align with any other murder of the period, primarily due to its simplicity, and to-date, its baffling motive.

This murder was simple? The motives to the other crimes are blatantly obvious? Good lord, there's plenty of real and legit little mysteries you can obsess over. Pick one of those and leave poor ol' Liz alone.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DrHopper]

No romanticising at all I'm afraid...just the rejection of "Marie Jeanette" as a Roman Catholic Latinised baptismal name, which it simply isn't...sorry

Dave

You speak with such authority and such dismissiveness.

http://www.catholicdoors.com/misc/names.htm#names2

But you're right, it's much better to imagine her as a French actress and Irish political agitator.

[Observer]

"Imagine" being the operative word here Dr H.

Flights of fancy doesn't come into it.

Certain posters are being wasted carrying out the mundane occupations they perform to earn a modest crust. I'd advise they go in for script writing, there's many a dollar to be earned, considering their fertile imaginations.

Did you know that the Russian Ochrana were involved in the Eddowes murder? It's all true, I've read it here on Casebook.

Best regards

Observer

[Cogidubnus]

You speak with such authority and such dismissiveness.

http://www.catholicdoors.com/misc/names.htm#names2

But you're right, it's much better to imagine her as a French actress and Irish political agitator.

Hi Dr H...Your site also says that according to revised RC Canonical law it is no longer necessary for a baptismal name to be that of a Saint. I think you'll find that in the 1860s it certainly was (the Catechism of the Council of Trent applied I think until the 1990s)...and I think you'll find that in the UK at least, the only permitted Marie at the time (in the French style) was Marie Rose...

I don't maintain either that I see her as either a French actress or an Irish Political agitator...just that I don't dismiss the possibility either...

All the best

Dave

[Michael W Richards]

This murder was simple? The motives to the other crimes are blatantly obvious? Good lord, there's plenty of real and legit little mysteries you can obsess over. Pick one of those and leave poor ol' Liz alone.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Liz Strides murder was done with a single stroke across the throat in 2 seconds, that constitutes "simple" in my estimation. No struggle, no mussed clothing. And I never said the motives in the other cases were "blatantly obvious" anywhere at any time,...(your fabrications are quite bold),....I have said that it appears that the motive for the murder of Polly and the murder of Annie was so the killer could mutilate them postmortem. I have also said that's why they can be fairly postulated as the work of one killer. So did the medical examiners, and most everyone else.

I know youd like to have Berner Street all to yourself so you can place your chosen characters about the board as best fits your own notions Tom, however, in the LeGrand scheme of things you have no evidence at all to link the man with any of these crimes let alone this one, other than the obvious link we all know of, his attempt at fraud. Youve put your eggs in a basket that relies on Israel Schwartz being a viable and important witness even though, once again, there is not a shred of hard evidence known that could establish that as truth.

Perhaps you should assess those positions rather than hand throwing some shite at individuals who cite evidence that is in opposition to your thinking.

Its always been about 5 unsolved murders within a larger group of unsolved murders in a small geographic area, looking for legitimate reasons for some of those murders is a perfectly rational way of attempting to identify suspects, perhaps you should try it.

Best regards,

Mike R

[mariab]

in the LeGrand scheme of things you have no evidence at all to link the man with any of these crimes let alone this one, other than the obvious link we all know of, his attempt at fraud.

How about Pipeman's physical description?

Youve put your eggs in a basket that relies on Israel Schwartz being a viable and important witness even though, once again, there is not a shred of hard evidence known that could establish that as truth.

Dunno if Tom has, but I've got the Berner Street case cleared (per circumstantial evidence) with Schwartz as a non reliable witness (via the IWEC-WVC link). Will be presented in an article when I've completed my research.

[Tom_Wescott]

Project Turdburger

Liz Strides murder was done with a single stroke across the throat in 2 seconds, that constitutes "simple" in my estimation. No struggle, no mussed clothing.

You see, this is why you're always wrong. You take a truth and flip it on its head. The fact that in the near pitch darkness a man could so easily kill a woman with a single slice of his blade indicates he was confident, had control of his reflexes (i.e. not inebriated), and was very, very comfortable working with a knife. It may have been simple for him, but killing a person with a single swipe is not a simple thing and far more often than not leaves a very pissed off, loud, and very much alive victim.

I know youd like to have Berner Street all to yourself so you can place your chosen characters about the board as best fits your own notions Tom,

While you were gone I expanded my territory to encompass all of Whitechapel and surround environs. it's all mine now.

however, in the LeGrand scheme of things you have no evidence at all to link the man with any of these crimes let alone this one, other than the obvious link we all know of, his attempt at fraud. Youve put your eggs in a basket that relies on Israel Schwartz being a viable and important witness even though, once again, there is not a shred of hard evidence known that could establish that as truth.

If I'm the one desperately fighting to defend a failing theory, then why are you the one who's always speaking in absolutes? If you read the journals, you'd know that I'm the only one out of the whole lot of you who has bothered to research and publish numerous theories as to who killed Stride. Why have I done this? Because nobody else will. We now have Jeff Leahy posting that nobody has ever studied the Berner Street murder as indepth as himself, so now I've seen it all. I suggest that before anyone calls me biased and narrowminded, that they first put forth a workable theory that can stand in competition with ANY of mine. And no, I don't mean throw one of my own theories back at me as though it's your own, as is usually the outcome. The only one who's bothered to do this is Garry Wroe with his Kozminski theory, which is an argument grounded in real evidence and facts, so hats off to Garry.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

Without dragging out this out further Tom, I personally feel that anyone who names a suspect, or in his or her own mind goes about clearing a suspect, is being irresponsible. Unless of course accompanying that accusation absolute proof is provided.

So any article or full blown thesis naming anyone as the murderer of the Canonical Group or any member of it, or clearing any suspect of complicity in any of the murders, without also publishing that absolute proof, isnt really publishing anything new or revelatory. In fact you are just slandering the dead by use of their name in conjunction with the Ripper crimes.

Thats the simple reason I dont, and never have, chosen or named anyone as a suspect in these crimes. I have said that I can see the logic in others choices, like Lynn Cates and his review of Isenschmid as a potential C1 and C2 killer.

The relationship link that you say you have discovered Maria, if provable, opens up discussions on how that relationship affected what Israel Schwartz stated to the police. It does not exonerate Israel or anyone at the club nor does it damn Israel or anyone at the club...it only allows for a more discerning and critical look at what he said happened.

Best regards,

Mike R