Did Jack only kill 3?

[Michael W Richards]

This murder was simple? The motives to the other crimes are blatantly obvious? Good lord, there's plenty of real and legit little mysteries you can obsess over. Pick one of those and leave poor ol' Liz alone.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Liz Strides murder was done with a single stroke across the throat in 2 seconds, that constitutes "simple" in my estimation. No struggle, no mussed clothing. And I never said the motives in the other cases were "blatantly obvious" anywhere at any time,...(your fabrications are quite bold),....I have said that it appears that the motive for the murder of Polly and the murder of Annie was so the killer could mutilate them postmortem. I have also said that's why they can be fairly postulated as the work of one killer. So did the medical examiners, and most everyone else.

I know youd like to have Berner Street all to yourself so you can place your chosen characters about the board as best fits your own notions Tom, however, in the LeGrand scheme of things you have no evidence at all to link the man with any of these crimes let alone this one, other than the obvious link we all know of, his attempt at fraud. Youve put your eggs in a basket that relies on Israel Schwartz being a viable and important witness even though, once again, there is not a shred of hard evidence known that could establish that as truth.

Perhaps you should assess those positions rather than hand throwing some shite at individuals who cite evidence that is in opposition to your thinking.

Its always been about 5 unsolved murders within a larger group of unsolved murders in a small geographic area, looking for legitimate reasons for some of those murders is a perfectly rational way of attempting to identify suspects, perhaps you should try it.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Cogidubnus]

You speak with such authority and such dismissiveness.

http://www.catholicdoors.com/misc/names.htm#names2

But you're right, it's much better to imagine her as a French actress and Irish political agitator.

Hi Dr H...Your site also says that according to revised RC Canonical law it is no longer necessary for a baptismal name to be that of a Saint. I think you'll find that in the 1860s it certainly was (the Catechism of the Council of Trent applied I think until the 1990s)...and I think you'll find that in the UK at least, the only permitted Marie at the time (in the French style) was Marie Rose...

I don't maintain either that I see her as either a French actress or an Irish Political agitator...just that I don't dismiss the possibility either...

All the best

Dave

[Observer]

"Imagine" being the operative word here Dr H.

Flights of fancy doesn't come into it.

Certain posters are being wasted carrying out the mundane occupations they perform to earn a modest crust. I'd advise they go in for script writing, there's many a dollar to be earned, considering their fertile imaginations.

Did you know that the Russian Ochrana were involved in the Eddowes murder? It's all true, I've read it here on Casebook.

Best regards

Observer

[DrHopper]

No romanticising at all I'm afraid...just the rejection of "Marie Jeanette" as a Roman Catholic Latinised baptismal name, which it simply isn't...sorry

Dave

You speak with such authority and such dismissiveness.

http://www.catholicdoors.com/misc/names.htm#names2

But you're right, it's much better to imagine her as a French actress and Irish political agitator.

[Tom_Wescott]

Project Turdburger

Stride is uncharacteristic and is hard to align with any other murder of the period, primarily due to its simplicity, and to-date, its baffling motive.

This murder was simple? The motives to the other crimes are blatantly obvious? Good lord, there's plenty of real and legit little mysteries you can obsess over. Pick one of those and leave poor ol' Liz alone.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Bridewell]

On that vein I could see the man that killed Polly and Annie later killing Alice, they are quite similar deaths in my humble opinion.

And mine. I was beginning to think that I was the only one.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Michael W Richards]

While the possibility of interuption was present in all the murders committed,though less so in Kelly's case,there is at least ,in the case of Stride,good information that a person did happen on to the scene,at a time and in a manner,that suggests an interuption could have prevented further injuries to her person.I believe the term serial to be destructive when applied to the Whitechapel murders.I prefer the term multiple killer, and it can be argued strongly,that such a person was active in Whitechapel in the latter half of 1888,and possibly later.

Hi Harry,

But that is precisely what scholars on serial killers do, isnt it? They refer to killers as serial even though they kill multiple victims over, often, substantial periods of time. On that vein I could see the man that killed Polly and Annie later killing Alice, they are quite similar deaths in my humble opinion.

Stride is uncharacteristic and is hard to align with any other murder of the period, primarily due to its simplicity, and to-date, its baffling motive.

The only story that allows for an interruption is Louis's, and according to Blackwell Liz could have been cut on that spot as early as 12:46am. And 3 witnesses the night of the murder, 2 from that club, stated they saw the body near to 12:45am.

The only thing that is interrupted in the Stride murder is the Ripper "series".

Best regards Harry

[harry]

While the possibility of interuption was present in all the murders committed,though less so in Kelly's case,there is at least ,in the case of Stride,good information that a person did happen on to the scene,at a time and in a manner,that suggests an interuption could have prevented further injuries to her person.I believe the term serial to be destructive when applied to the Whitechapel murders.I prefer the term multiple killer, and it can be argued strongly,that such a person was active in Whitechapel in the latter half of 1888,and possibly later.

[Fisherman]

Not only do I forgive you for pointing that out, Observer; I very much commend you for doing so, since this point seems to get lost every now and then.

The best,
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi all,Jon Fisherman etc

You all provide good examples mapping out what these individuals get up to, and I think you'll agree that JTR pretty much fits the bill where a compulsive serial killer is concerned.

Of course, if you forgive me for stating the obvious, they are all individuals, and subsequently there will be differences from person to person.

Regards

Observer

[Fisherman]

I would humbly submit that since we do not know WHAT the Ripper was, we cannot tell who of the known serial killers are "close" to him. Not at all, in fact. We can only compare the respective outcome of their deeds, the results of their murderous attacks - but we cannot compare two men out of whom we know only one.

Edward Gingrich serves as a counterpart to Suff, if you will, Abby - he was nothing like William Suff as a person, but he produced a slaying that comes very close to what happened to Kelly. Whether that makes him something we can call "close" to the Ripper is another thing altogether.

The best,
Fisherman

[Abby Normal]

Hello Mr O

I agree, I don`t think having kids would have deterred Suttcliffe but his marriage was not right, and kids were never on the cards forthe Sutcliffe`s, unlike Charles "Walton" Cross.

I`m pretty sure Sutcliffe ever killed anyone whilst out in his lorry, and he would often return from a trip during darkness. He put false plates on his car rather than using the works lorry to circle the red light area.

In fact, as I suspect you know, Sutcliffe`s car was part of his MO, as he would ask the prossie to get in the back for intercourse and whack them on the head from behind as they climbed in the back.

He`s not like Cross, at all. But he`s the only serial killer we could compare with the Ripper.

Hi Jon

No-he certainly is not like Cross. I agree with that. He had a car and even if he did kill on his way to work, he had a mobile bolt hole, unlike Lech.

But he`s the only serial killer we could compare with the Ripper.

[/QUOTE]
Check out William Suff the Riverside (CA) Prostitute Killer. Hes about as close as you can come to the ripper.

[Fisherman]

Jon Guy:

"He`s not like Cross, at all."

Do we know this, Jon? Actually?

All the best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Hi Jon!

" I agree he`s the closest example we have, but I don`t think he killed anyone on the way to work, or whilst he was at work.
His marrige was dysfunctional, the pair were nutters, and they didn`t have any kids."

They tried to have kids, but a number of miscarriages put an end to that prospect. And how functional the Lechmere marriage was - who can tell?

As for the killing en route to work part, Sutcliffe had the social opportunities to do his business at other times, apparently. But we still have a guy traversing prostitute territory on a very frequent basis, preying on prostitutes. The similarities are there - but maybe we should not expect them to be total.

Al the best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Observer:

" I believe we should be looking for a man with a family life. I also believe he liked a drink or two, and frequented the areas bars. He knew where he could find prostitutes also. An average man in most aspects of his life."

Bingo, Observer, if I´m not much mistaken - although I´m not sure about the drink bit. We may equally be looking at a man who observed a very rigid self-control, a man who avoided things like drink. But that´s just one possibility - he may equally have been a drinker to at least some extent. Anybody´s guess, I´m afraid.

All the best,
Fisherman