Margaret Hames

[Debra A]

Margaret Hames' entry in the latest edition of the A to Z:

"Fellow-lodger of Emma smith.Attacked in Osborne Treet/Brick Lane vicinity on 8 Dec 1887, receiving face and chest injuries that kept her in Whitechapel Infirmary until 28 December. It is possible that a misrecollection of her assault as fatal may have lain behind references to a murder at Christmas 1887."

I don't think this has been mentioned before, apologies if it has, but while looking through the Whitechapel Infirmary records for earlier in 1887, I came across Margaret being admitted some 8 months earlier too.
Here's the March entry from the Whitechapel Union Infirmary Admission and Discharge Register 1887-88. Margaret's entry is the top line in all the pictures:







My transcript:
1303 Admitted Monday March 7th, Hames Margaret,age 54, address 18 George Street, widow of John a ship cook, reason for admission - contused hips, religion C of E

Margaret was in the Infirmary for over 2 weeks and was discharged on 23 March 1887.
The March 1887 and December 1887 entries both record margaret being admitted in the morning, 11 am and 11.15am respectively.

I wonder what caused the contused hips?

[Cogidubnus]

I wonder what caused the contused hips?

An early crime by Jack the Hipper?

Sorry, I'll get me coat....

Dave

[lynn cates]

a fallen woman?

Hello Debs. This is very interesting.

Could she have taken a fall?

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

I confess to have read, clearly wrongly 'Contrussed Hip'.
Funny what the mind 'percieves' sometimes!

Best wishes

Phil

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. This is very interesting.

Could she have taken a fall?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
It could have been a fall, of course. I'm just wondering how both hips could be injured in a fall though? Don't people tend to fall on one side or the other...if not flat on their face or back?

Emma Smith's landlady at 18 George Street claimed Emma came back regularly with signs of having taking a beating didn't she?
Emily Horsenail at #19 George Street was beaten up and died as a consequence in November 1887.
Just interesting that Margaret Hames, at 18 george Street on both occasions, had two long spells in the Infirmary a few months apart.

[lynn cates]

alternate possibility

Hello Debs. Yes, you are correct. So possibly not a fall.

Perhaps a scuffle?

Cheers.
LC

[Roy Corduroy]

Emma Smith's landlady at 18 George Street claimed Emma came back regularly with signs of having taking a beating didn't she?
Emily Horsenail at #19 George Street was beaten up and died as a consequence in November 1887.
Just interesting that Margaret Hames, at 18 george Street on both occasions, had two long spells in the Infirmary a few months apart.

It is interesting Debs, and thank you. A direct blow would cause a contusion.

Roy

[mariab]

Debs, do you reckon that there hasn't been a police investigation since the case wasn't mentioned in the papers? (As far as we know.) If Hames didn't want to press charges (perhaps wishing to hide the fact that she was a prostitute), would the hospital press her at all to reveal more information, would you expect?

[Debra A]

Hi Lynn and Roy.
Thanks for the thoughts.
I suppose it could still be accidental in that it could be that she was knocked over by something which hit her on one hip and she fell onto the other one, or perhaps she was squashed between two things at hip height?
Lloyd's Weekly did print the details of serious and not so serious accidents in a weekly column but I haven't managed to find Margaret mentioned in there.

[Debra A]

Hi Maria,
I wonder if the first anyone heard of Margaret Hames case was when she gave evidence at Emma smith' inquest?
Margaret would have to tell the hospital she had been attacked in the first place and even then I don't think they would have been able to report it to police if Margaret didn't want them to? Perhaps they had a few women coming through their doors every month in similar states for all sorts of reasons and didn't ask questions at all, just patched them up?

[tji]

Hi Debs

Is this any help?

In England well down to the middle of the nineteenth century the responsibility for the initiation of criminal prosecution in the courts rested on the victim. The victim was also usually left to decide on the severity, and nature of the charges. Criminal prosecution was, in other words rather more like civil litigation. Private prosecution was expensive. Only wealthy people could afford to pay for a lengthy court trial. The practice of paying magistrates to issue arrest warrants was common. Often the threat of prosecution was hung over someone's head as a guarantee of future good behaviour. During the 18th century

".. not only assaults by virtually all thefts and even some murders were left to the general public. That meant that responsibility for the initial expense and entire conduct of the prosecution was thrown on the victim and his or her family... As late as the mid 19th century no public official was responsible for ensuring that even the most serious offences were prosecuted. " (Hay and Snyder 1989: 27)

Tracy

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

Is this any help?

In England well down to the middle of the nineteenth century the responsibility for the initiation of criminal prosecution in the courts rested on the victim. The victim was also usually left to decide on the severity, and nature of the charges. Criminal prosecution was, in other words rather more like civil litigation. Private prosecution was expensive. Only wealthy people could afford to pay for a lengthy court trial. The practice of paying magistrates to issue arrest warrants was common. Often the threat of prosecution was hung over someone's head as a guarantee of future good behaviour. During the 18th century

".. not only assaults by virtually all thefts and even some murders were left to the general public. That meant that responsibility for the initial expense and entire conduct of the prosecution was thrown on the victim and his or her family... As late as the mid 19th century no public official was responsible for ensuring that even the most serious offences were prosecuted. " (Hay and Snyder 1989: 27)

Tracy

Hi Tracy.
That's very helpful. Thanks for posting.
When reading the papers you often see people going to the magistrates to bring charges against someone else.
I wonder when a public official for ensuring prosecutions for less serious offences came into being?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Debs, great find. I confess though that I don't see an 's' at the end of 'Hip'. I just see 'Hip'. It might just be my eyes, though. If it's just one hip, I'd call it a fall. If it's both hips, I'd think that a little weird.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

I confess though that I don't see an 's' at the end of 'Hip'. I just see 'Hip'. It might just be my eyes, though. If it's just one hip, I'd call it a fall. If it's both hips, I'd think that a little weird.

Tom, I see it as "hips", with a not very wide "p".
To me it sounds very possibly like a sexual assault/beating. Otherwise, the only way for someone to hurt both their hips would be to roll down the stairs for a while. As real experienced in crashing from about 4ft in the air while doing double jumps in ice skating, I can attest that even on a big crash one tends to land on only one side, not both. (Duh.)

When reading the papers you often see people going to the magistrates to bring charges against someone else.
I wonder when a public official for ensuring prosecutions for less serious offences came into being?

No clue how it works in the UK, but in continental Europe and in the US one has to press charges for someone else to be prosecuted for misdemeanors (like beatings, shoplifting, etc..) Traffic offenses, drug-related offenses, and solliciting get prosecuted "automatically".

[Tom_Wescott]

Take a look at 'ships cook' to the left and you'll see the writer spells his 'p' just like in 'Hip' and the 's' is separate. If the entry were intended to read 'Hips', I think it would appear more like the 'ps' construction in 'ships'. But again, that's just what I see, and I don't look at this stuff all the time like Deb's does, and I'm just seeing a scan. So if she sees 'Hips', that's probably what it is.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott