Victim's simularities

[lynn cates]

comparison

Hello David. Well, what counts as special?

"Don't compare, really. We even don't know if they were killed, and if they were, we don't know how, nor where. We don't know either who were the victims. So not comparable at all."

Hmm, we don't know? Sounds almost like all the WCM.

Cheers.
LC

[Addy]

Hi all,

When I say small time frame, I mean within a couple of minutes.

JtR was seen with Eddowes, by Lawende.

Why would there be 2 killers? And as far as mutilations go: only Stride wasn't mutilated and that has been discussed: either she wasn't a Ripper victim or he was disturbed. And whether or not she was a Ripper victim does not really matter, the other murders are still there.

The same circumstances means: at night indeed, in a lonely spot probably picked by the women, the deed done within minutes and in complete silence with no traces left.

I don't think you can compare the torso cases with the Ripper cases. Yes, they are dead indeed, but so are people who die of natural causes. The torso killing were (probably) done by another killer and indeed not in the spot where the torso's were found. The cases are very different and so the perpetrators.

The police had many suspects indeed and modern researchers have added many more. The fact that there are many suspects has nothing to do with whether the women were murdered by one man or two or twenty. It just means that it was a difficult case to crack and so far, it hasn't been done. It also has nothing to do with whether or not the police were right in thinking it was just one man, it only means the didn't know which man.

Greetings,

Addy

[DVV]

Sounds almost like all the WCM.
LC

You think ? I don't.

How could it sound like muders that have nothing in common and weren't committed by the same hand, by the way ?

[DVV]

Hi Addy, good post, agreed.

[lynn cates]

un poco mas

Hello Addy.

"Why would there be 2 killers?"

Conversely, Why not?

"And whether or not she was a Ripper victim does not really matter, the other murders are still there. "

Yes, and many more in different times and places. But surely they are not ALL from the same hand?

"I don't think you can compare the torso cases with the Ripper cases."

And I don't think you can compare Polly with MJK--but many do.

"The fact that there are many suspects has nothing to do with whether the women were murdered by one man or two or twenty. It just means that it was a difficult case to crack and so far, it hasn't been done. It also has nothing to do with whether or not the police were right in thinking it was just one man, it only means the didn't know which man."

Right. But I was responding to your observation about the Met possibly being wrong. Doubtless, they were.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

compare and contrast

Hello David. ALL murders have at least one thing in common; All murders contain at least one dissimilarity.

Where to draw the line?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

ALL murders have at least one thing in common; All murders contain at least one dissimilarity.

That's the case with almost every serial killer, Lynn. From Nichols to Kelly, the same hand is rather obvious when compared to many other murder sprees.

Where to draw the line?

Period, location, ferocity, viciousness, victimology, MO.

[Addy]

Hi Lynn,

Indeed, you can't compare all murders everywhere, but a couple of murders occuring in a short time after each other, in the same place, in the same way?

I agree that if there was no murder between Nichols and MJK you wouldn't think they were done by the same man but with the other murders in between, progressing in severity, I think they are part of a series. Who is your suspect for the MJK killing by the way?

We both feel the police at the time was wrong, but I think they started to look at the wrong suspects, you think they were wrong in thinking the murders came from the same hand. Am I right?

Greetings,

Addy

[Addy]

Thanks DVV

[lynn cates]

assuming . . .

Hello David. Victimology? Well, if one makes many assumptions--like a woman who is hungry, thirsty, hungover and needing to urinate stops off for sex.

I do not make those assumptions.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

diversity

Hello Addy. I agree about the Nichols MJK comparison. And if one sees a progression (as one may do if one ignores a few factors), surely that is psychological?

I see no reason why Fleming does not make a good suspect for Kelly's killer. Of course, much more research needs to be done.

Well, there were coppers and coppers. If we look closely, not all saw one hand--the medicos certainly did not. And the City of London chaps seemed to doubt even the "Double Event."

Cheers.
LC

[Addy]

Hi Lynn,

I haven't read much about Fleming yet, so no comment there.

Yes, if you see the pattern evolving in the murders, it is psychologically. The killer went further with every murder and to me, that indicates the further development of the psychological condition of the murderer. That is why I think they were all random victims and none of the murders was premeditated.

Greetings,

Addy

[Malcolm X]

That's the case with almost every serial killer, Lynn. From Nichols to Kelly, the same hand is rather obvious when compared to many other murder sprees.



Period, location, ferocity, viciousness, victimology, MO.

yes you'll always get variety, but not so much as to tell you that these other murders aint JTR, or something odd is going on here/ someone else who knew JTR/ periods of insanity, because only the C5 make sense.

JTR was only sane whist committing the C5 murders, and a raving idiot/Schitzo the rest of the time.... no i dont think so.

it's the careless murders after JTR that bother me the most, because beforehand i can almost understand this, but i do have to say that i've hardly ever looked at these murders that closely.

[Wickerman]

Quoting press report:"..... Last evening she came into the house accompanied by a male companion, ..... as soon as I commenced to descend I noticed a young fair man rush to the front door and let himself out. "

The man:
"Aged about 30, height 5 ft. 6 in.; face sunburnt, with fair moustache; dressed in dark coat, light trousers, and wideawake hat."

Not a world away from later descriptions of a man seen in Hanbury St., & Berner St.
If the killer was evolving, this attack indoors (like Kelly?) might have been his first. Perhaps emanating from a robbery attempt which went wrong, not necessarily premeditated murder that failed.

I wouldn't rule this out.

Regards, Jon S.

[DVV]

Hello David. Victimology? Well, if one makes many assumptions--like a woman who is hungry, thirsty, hungover and needing to urinate stops off for sex.

I do not make those assumptions.

Cheers.
LC

No idea what you're talking about.

As for victimology, I can make it clearer : not only 1888 saw extraodinary murders in the East End, which is not the case in 1887 nor 1889, but all the 1888 victims were unfortunates aged at least 35 for most of them.
So yes, victimology also tells you there was a serial killer.