Victim's simularities

[DVV]

Hi,
I'm not familiar with the case. Did he confess to all of them?

Hi Curious, I'm not sure. But what is sure (and most interesting) is that he has "been" 3 different characters (like two killers with two distint methods + the "Measurer" who didn't kill his preys).

People neglect the fact that there is no murder as vicious as that of Emma Smith, except the ripper murders. Millwood, Smith, Tabram : in all cases, the same area was targeted and awfully injured. That is unique and there is nothing that can be compared to this cases in 1887, 89, 90, 91.

[Addy]

Hi all,

I agree with DVV, if you don't think the Ripper killed these women, do you suppose there were at least five women killed in practically the same way, under the same circumstances, with progressively worse mutilations, in very small time frames and this was done by a different person every time? A sort of copycat series? With none of the killers ever being caught? That would mean that none of the women were random targets but someone wanted them dead. No otive has ever been found for any of them.

That would also mean the police at the time got it completely wrong and were chasing one murderer while there were actually at least five going around. I doubt that.

Greetings,

Addy

[Malcolm X]

Hi Curious, I'm not sure. But what is sure (and most interesting) is that he has "been" 3 different characters (like two killers with two distint methods + the "Measurer" who didn't kill his preys).

People neglect the fact that there is no murder as vicious as that of Emma Smith, except the ripper murders. Millwood, Smith, Tabram : in all cases, the same area was targeted and awfully injured. That is unique and there is nothing that can be compared to this cases in 1887, 89, 90, 91.

these other murders are nothing like JTRs, not even close, that's what i was saying yesterday, but if it is JTR then he's in a different mindset, these other murders are scruffy, messy/ amateurish.... they look like mental instability.

these are distributed evenly, either side of JTR, so it is not an inexperienced killer building up to JTR and learning from his mistakes, because he repeats this same sloppiness afterwards.

think of it this way...... none of us have killed before, or ever want to, but say you went out to commit murder for the first time, just like JTR, the first thing you'd do is to think about it weeks in advance, plan an area where it's safe to attack and work out via research, how to kill your victim quickly, your first murder would appear like Stride, but with maybe far too much bruising to her body, her clothing ripped etc.

you will notice due to her cut throat that the killer is serious about his intent, but inexperienced due to the bruising etc, but these other Whitechapel murders are absolutely nothing like this, the killer looks like he has mental problems, he's too far gone to be an intelligent killer like JTR.

and what the hell is JTR doing robbing someone at home and then stabbing her neck twice, no this isn't JTR at all, see what i mean.

[lynn cates]

analysis

Hello Steven. Well, is "spot on" anything like "close"? (Heh-heh)

(Don't mean to flatter, but, like your namesake, you have keen powers of analysis.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

paradigm

Hello Addy.

"Do you suppose there were at least five women killed in practically the same way"

Practically the same way? Well, I see a vast difference in Smith and, say, Kelly.

"under the same circumstances"

What were these? You mean at night?

"with progressively worse mutilations"

Some had no mutilations at all.

"in very small time frames"

You mean during the course of 1888? Very well, how long must there be a gap before 2 hands are considered?

"and this was done by a different person every time?"

Every time? Well, I don't think that.

"A sort of copycat series?"

Well, 1 copycat.

"With none of the killers ever being caught?"

Well the torso perpetrator/s was not caught either.

"That would also mean the police at the time got it completely wrong"

Well, insofar as, at some time, they suspected a Polish/Jewish self-abuser, a depressed English barrister and an American snake oil salesman, perhaps they did.

"and were chasing one murderer while there were actually at least five going around."

Were they chasing ANY of them? And there may have been more than 5. There were clearly more than 5 IF you count those that were solved.

"I doubt that."

That's fine. We all filter the world according to our paradigm.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

and what the hell is JTR doing robbing someone at home and then stabbing her neck twice, no this isn't JTR at all, see what i mean.

Have you studied the Wilson case, Malcolm ?

Doesn't seem, but if so, what is your reason for dismissing Rose Bierman testimony ?

[lynn cates]

same/different

Hello Malcolm. Bravo! Well spoke.

All murders have both similarities and differences. What is significant or not depends on the investigator. But NONE of it changes what actually happened.

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

"Ada Wilson, the injured woman, is the occupier of the house, but at the time of the outrage she was under notice to quit. I knew Mrs. Wilson as a married woman, although I had never seen her husband. Last evening she came into the house accompanied by a male companion, but whether he was her husband or not I could not say. She has often had visitors to see her, but I have rarely seen them myself, as Mrs. Wilson lives in the front room, her bedroom being just at the back, adjoining the parlour. My mother and I occupy two rooms upstairs. Well, I don't know who the young man was, but about midnight I heard the most terrible screams one can imagine. Running downstairs I saw Mrs. Wilson, partially dressed, wringing her hands and crying, 'Stop that man for cutting my throat! He has stabbed me!' She then fell fainting in the passage. I saw all that as I was coming downstairs, but as soon as I commenced to descend I noticed a young fair man rush to the front door and let himself out. He did not seem somehow to unfasten the catch as if he had been accustomed to do so before. He had a light coat on, I believe. I don't know what kind of wound Mrs. Wilson has received, but it must have been deep, I should say, from the quantity of blood in the passage. I do not know what I shall do myself. I am now 'keeping the feast,' and how can I do so with what has occurred here? I am now going to remove to other lodgings."

i have to admit that this does look interesting, but she was only 17 and he looks not much older, could be 22 i suppose, not a lot else you can say is there !

[DVV]

Hi Lynn

"under the same circumstances"

What were these? You mean at night?

Yeah. At night and in England.

"with progressively worse mutilations"

Some had no mutilations at all.

Diemshutz had no time to give Jack a hand, that's why.

"in very small time frames"

You mean during the course of 1888? Very well, how long must there be a gap before 2 hands are considered?

Exactly, Lynn : during the course of 1888. Then why no murders like those in 1887, 1889, etc. ?

"and this was done by a different person every time?"

Every time? Well, I don't think that.

"A sort of copycat series?"

Well, 1 copycat.

Aha. Only two killers and none of them that could be dubbed a serial-killer ? I'm lost.

"With none of the killers ever being caught?"

Well the torso perpetrator/s was not caught either.

Oh dear ! the torsos weren't killed on the spot. Don't compare.

"That would also mean the police at the time got it completely wrong"

Well, insofar as, at some time, they suspected a Polish/Jewish self-abuser, a depressed English barrister and an American snake oil salesman, perhaps they did.

Agreed, but honestly there was no consensus here. Far from it.

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. Bravo! Well spoke.

All murders have both similarities and differences. What is significant or not depends on the investigator. But NONE of it changes what actually happened.

Cheers.
LC

yes if these other murders aren't JTR, then it's most likely one other person only, i wouldn't go crazy and start saying 3 or 4

these two killers could be friends, but not always together, together for say Tabram and Stride, the problem we have is none of them look as young as 22, like the bloke i've mentioned above.

dont forget that JTR can also be Schwartz...... oh yes indeed, but this means that you have to dismiss three suspects that are way stronger than him, and one of these is virtually impossible to dismiss right now !!!

we could quite easily be wrong about everything and JTR was never seen with Eddowes and Kelly, if so this paves the way for virtually anyone, but the most likely suspect will be linked to the last 3 murders via Dutfields/ antisemetism, or antisemetism with a twist, this could quite easily be Schwartz, because what he sais is also highly suspicious, plus it varies in the two different versions that he gave....... he's a bit like GH.

[lynn cates]

punctus contra punctum

Hello David.

"Yeah. At night and in England."

Well, many things happen at night. I would say "sex"--but perhaps NOT in England. (Heh-heh)

"Diemshutz had no time to give Jack a hand, that's why."

Why would he need a hand? (And if Kosminski is the culprit, his hand worked fine.)

"Then why no murders like those in 1887, 1889, etc?"

Statistical abberation.

"Aha. Only two killers and none of them that could be dubbed a serial-killer ? I'm lost

Liz was no copycat. Her throat was cut. Simple. MJK was likely not one either. Who else had their thighs stripped to the bone?

"Oh dear ! the torsos weren't killed on the spot. Don't compare."

Why not? They, too, were dead.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

i have to admit that this does look interesting, but she was only 17 and he looks not much older, could be 22 i suppose, not a lot else you can say is there !

It is very interesting, Malcolm.

Ada Wilson was 39 according to Sugden (presumably from the London Hospital register), and she said the man was about 30.

The man with the wideawake hat, that means.

[DVV]

And if Kosminski is the culprit, his hand worked fine

As much as Anderson's, my dear.

[lynn cates]

Not only, but also . . . .

Hello Malcolm.

"yes if these other murders aren't JTR, then it's most likely one other person only, i wouldn't go crazy and start saying 3 or 4'

Why is that crazy? Some think that 2 is right out.

"these two killers could be friends, but not always together, together for say Tabram and Stride, the problem we have is none of them look as young as 22, like the bloke i've mentioned above.'

Well, we might have more problems than just that.

"dont forget that JTR can also be Schwartz"

Or nearly anyone else. That is, he could be if he existed.

"oh yes indeed, but this means that you have to dismiss three suspects that are way stronger than him, and one of these is virtually impossible to dismiss right now !!!"

And that would be?

"we could quite easily be wrong about everything and JTR was never seen with Eddowes and Kelly"

Indeed.

"if so this paves the way for virtually anyone"

So perhaps it's time to review the case through fresh eyes?

"but the most likely suspect will be linked to the last 3 murders via Dutfields/ antisemetism, or antisemetism with a twist, this could quite easily be Schwartz"

I don't see any antisemitic links to MJK. True, GH described A-Man as Jewish looking. But that is not anti-semitic.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

"Then why no murders like those in 1887, 1889, etc?"

Statistical abberation.

Certainly not. It's worth noting, as much as the end of the series.

"Aha. Only two killers and none of them that could be dubbed a serial-killer ? I'm lost

Liz was no copycat. Her throat was cut. Simple. MJK was likely not one either. Who else had their thighs stripped to the bone?

And you tell me there was nothing special in 1888 ?

"Oh dear ! the torsos weren't killed on the spot. Don't compare."

Why not? They, too, were dead.

Don't compare, really. We even don't know if they were killed, and if they were, we don't know how, nor where. We don't know either who were the victims. So not comparable at all.