Spare a thought- The Double Event

[Phil H]

It might suggest that Eddowes and Kelly did - the only two with facial mutilation.

If Eddowes was killed by someone seeking revenge (Fenian?) then Kelly might have been facially mutilated to make it APPEAR she was a victim of the same killer.

On the other hand, the two women might have been disfigured for different reasons. To me, the remark by Steve S conforms to my prevalent view these days that MJK was killed by an intimate friend.

Phil H

[Sherlock Holmes]

based on that would you say the victims knew their killer

Regards
Holmes

[Steve S]

Something from the Conference....Based on modern experience,facial mutilations normally indicate the killer knows the victim..........??

[DVV]

I think what it does do is confirm that at least Marys killer could read David.

Certainly not, Mike. And clearly a lot of casebookers, who have read more about JtR than Mary's killer, don't know that he gained access to the internal organs by detaching flaps of skin, or have forgotten this detail.
Note, by the way, that in Hanbury St it was getting light, while a fire was burning in Kelly's room.

So youve narrowed her killer down to a person who can read and hold a knife. A person without knife skills or anatomical knowledge. Unlike Annies killer, who most certainly possessed both qualities.

Sorry Mike, I'm not really a Dr Phillips' fan.

[Barnaby]

I revived last year's thread with the sole purpose of remembering the anniversary of the death's of Stride and Eddowes, not to debate who was responsible for the murders, etc. There are plenty of other threads for those important topics. But it would be nice to keep this a simple rememberance thread. It really didn't matter to the victims who killed them or why.

[drstrange169]

Perhaps more appropriate that arguments, pros and cons, etc take place on another thread.
Surely the two women deserve at last a moments pause for peace.

[Michael W Richards]

Stomach flaps = Chapman and Kelly.
It makes Kelly definitely canonical, if you ask me.
As for Fleming making a credible suspect, well...

I think what it does do is confirm that at least Marys killer could read David. Mary has an amalgamation of injuries that her killer had read about. Like everyone else in the area. I pointed out recently that in Canada a few months back a killer cut up his victim and sent pieces of the victim out in the mail. And without surprise, I can tell you that 3 more killings have been committed since then, after much press coverage, that included the killers cutting the victim into pieces and spreading them about. Clearly not all 4 killers had a compulsion to cut people into pieces. They were influenced by what they had read.

So youve narrowed her killer down to a person who can read and hold a knife. A person without knife skills or anatomical knowledge. Unlike Annies killer, who most certainly possessed both qualities.

Cheers

[DVV]

As for Fleming making a credible suspect, well...

Please continue - I wait with baited breath....

Phil H

Nope. That'd be off-topic.

[c.d.]

I think the extensive cuts to the face could be accounted for by the fact that her killer had time to gaze upon her face in the light of the fire, something that he would not have been afforded with his earlier victims. Looking at her face for a long time could have triggered something in him.

c.d.

[c.d.]

The problem with assuming a pre-existing relationship is that that relationship can span the spectrum of lover, former client, friend, all the way to someone she met earlier that day.

I do think that she invited her killer into her room but I don't see anything personal in her killing. I simply see a killer with more time than he ever had before.

c.d.

[curious]

the nature of the crime could be an attempt to mask a crime of passion by seeking to emulate what the murderer has READ but not seen about how Eddowes was treated.

Phil H

Hi, Phil,
I can see that for a copy cat, but why remove the flesh from the arms and legs?

Why go that much further?

Thanks,
curious

[curious]

I believe the stomach flaps indicate more influence from what the papers reported about Annies murder than Kates Phil.

There is little if any doubt that Marys killer performed acts upon her that are consistent with a pre-existing relationship of some kind between killer and victim. Added to the location....in her room on her own bed....the demeanor of Mary when she was attacked....in her chemise on the bed close to the partition wall, (leaving room for someone to slip in beside her?)....its impossible to believe that the killer was not in that room uninvited.

Cheers

Could someone realistically know how to create "stomach flaps" just by reading the paper. How likely were they to have been done the same way by someone trying to imitate just by reading something in the papers?

Quoting you: Marys killer performed acts upon her that are consistent with a pre-existing relationship of some kind

What are you seeing there? If you don't mind sharing?

Like you, I believe the killer was invited in. I can't make a break-in work in my head.

curious

[curious]

The source is a vivid imagination curious. Liz was not pregnant.

Cheers

Michael,
thanks for the chuckle.

Imagination was also my call, but I wondered how in the world he came up with that and thought he might tell me if I asked.

curious

[Phil H]

As for Fleming making a credible suspect, well...

Please continue - I wait with baited breath....

Phil H

[DVV]

Stomach flaps = Chapman and Kelly.
It makes Kelly definitely canonical, if you ask me.
As for Fleming making a credible suspect, well...