Martha Tabram and Elisabeth Stride A Connection?

[belinda]

This has probably come up before but Martha and Lis seem to have been killed by a similar knife.

A connection perhaps

[Fleetwood Mac]

This has probably come up before but Martha and Lis seem to have been killed by a similar knife.

A connection perhaps

Belinda,

It's clear from Sadler's event that people bought and sold knives.

All you would need is a few bob and you have a different knife with a different degree of sharpness/bluntness.

[Addy]

Hi

It also appears that many (if not practically everybody) were carrying knives in Whitechapel. So that they were murdered by the same knive it not as much of a coincidence as it might look to us. And a certain type of knive was probably more popular (or cheaper to buy) than others and was used more often.

Greetings,

Addy

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Addy. Stride was not killed by a penknife, if that's what you mean. All we know about the knife used to kill her was that it had a sharp blade and apparently would have been larger than a penknife.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[niko]

Why a bayonet ?

Hi everyone, corect me If I'm wrong, "twenty nine stabwound's some which were made by a bayonet" that was said at Martha Tabram's inquest, why did they asume a bayonet, if nowhone was there to see it.

All bayonet's are not sharpened on both side's of the blade, we all know what a bayonet look's like don't we, if not sure google this " Bayonet militar 1888". All the best, Agur.

niko

[Addy]

Hi Tom,

I did not have a particular knife in mind. I just meant to say that knives were very common, so two people being stabbed by the same type of knife was not that uncommon.

Greetings,

Addy

[Steven Russell]

Hello all,
I do not see how a shallower wound necessarily means a shorter knife. You could easily inflict anything from a light scratch to a deep gash with the same knife. The only thing a pathologist could determine would be the MINIMUM length of the blade.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[mariab]

why did they asume a bayonet, if nowhone was there to see it.

A bayonet leaves a characteristic imprint when inflicted on flesh. Bayonet wounds were occurring very frequently and NOT only during wars in the 18th/19th century. By the by, if you read reports about soldiers' injuries during war, bayonet wounds are for the most part non fatal, unless the heart was pierced. What did the job in killing Tabram was the knife, not the alleged bayonet.

The only thing a pathologist could determine would be the MINIMUM length of the blade.

He would also be able to determine the use of a serrated blade.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi all,

The idea that a bayonet may have killed Tabram arose from the fact that she had spent the evening in the company of soldiers. Dr Kileen did not personally put forth that a bayonet was the weapon used for the deep chest wound, but when asked if it could have been by a juror, the doctor conceded it was possible that a bayonet could have been used.

Regarding Stride and Tabram, there's absolutely no medical evidence that would suggest the same knife was used. There's also no evidence that would rule out the possibility that the larger knife used on Tabram was the same knife used on the later victims. However, the more signiicant injuries inflicted on the later victims could not have been made with a penknife/pocket knife.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

The idea that a bayonet may have killed Tabram arose from the fact that she had spent the evening in the company of soldiers.

Absolutely.

Dr Kileen did not personally put forth that a bayonet was the weapon used for the deep chest wound, but when asked if it could have been by a juror, the doctor conceded it was possible that a bayonet could have been used.

I haven't yet managed to look up the Tabram inquest (in the press), so thank you for quoting from it.

[niko]

Absolutely.

I haven't yet managed to look up the Tabram inquest (in the press), so thank you for quoting from it.

Hi everyone, found this on casebook.

Inquest - MARTHA TABRAM.

Day 1. Thursday August 9. 1888
(The Times August 10 1888)

Dr T.R. Killen said - "she had 39 stabwound's on the body", further on it mention's - The wound's generally MIGHT have been inflicted by a knife, but such an instrument would not have inflicted one of the wound's, which went through the chest bone. His opinion was that one of the wound's was inflicted by some kind of DAGGER, and that all of them were caused during life.


So two knives, so I understand two person's, unless the murderer held a knife in each hand "or" all the wound's were all inflicted with a large dagger type knife, remember the knife went through the chest-bone. Martha was apparently murdered on a building landing, and there were sign's of a struggle, I wonder if she screamed, but nowhone heard nothing I think.
This remind's me of a phrase which was used when I lived in the East End.
" see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing". All the best, Agur.

niko

[Rubyretro]

.

So two knives, so I understand two person's, unless the murderer held a knife in each hand

It doesn't need to be two people. Danilo Restivo stabbed Elisa Claps to death,
with multiple stab wounds, and used two different blades -a knife and a pair of scissors. So, although it seems strange that one killer would use two blades during a violent struggle, it is entirely possible.

The most interesting thing would be to definitely know what the two blades were. In the Restivo case, the knife could have been used by anyone, whereas the scissors were a real clue to that particular killer. It could be the same thing in Tabram's killing. Sadly, we can't be sure that a bayonet was used.

[Steven Russell]

.


He would also be able to determine the use of a serrated blade.

True. He might also be able to tell if the blade was single or double-edged, curved or straight, thick or thin etc. I should have said that in terms of the length of the blade, only the minimum could be ascertained (unless there were marks from the hilt perhaps).

Best wishes,
Steve.

[ChrisGeorge]

This has probably come up before but Martha and Lis seem to have been killed by a similar knife.

A connection perhaps

Hello Belinda

I think the idea of the shorter knife in the Stride case only came about because in her murder there were no abdominal mutilations. So the semblance is given that the knife used in her murder might have been the same as in the Tabram case, a short knife and maybe even a pen knife. Now, however, if he had gone on to do the abdominal mutilations on Stride's corpse as he did in the other cases we would be talking about it probably being the same long knife as used in those cases. Comprende?

Best regards

Chris