Work among the fallen as seen in the prison cell

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

One thing is clear, there were an awful lot of women using the aliases Kelly, McCarthy or Davis in Whitechapel and Spitalfields amongst the Irish Catholic prisoners. A lot of these women had family and acquaintances in the Brick Lane, Flower and Dean street areas.

Hmmm...not kidding! Anything on a Bridget McCarthy (possibly aka Carty) nee Power born circa 1861? (You can guess why I ask perhaps!)

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

In addition, by 1888 the prison had not officially held any prisoners since 1886, and was soon to be demolished (in 1890). That said, I do not think it impossible that the prison's cells may have been occasionally used short-term (for instance overnight) if space was at a premium in the local police stations, as may (although less likely) have been the cells in the cellar of the nearby pub, previously serving the prison wardens and which boasted not only its own cells but also an underground tunnel allegedly running either to the prison or to the riverbank, or both. If this was the case here, however, then the alleged Whitechapel victim would not have been an 'official' Millbank prisoners, and it would seem unlikely they would have been receiving visits and/or clothes packages from anyone.

Just as an update to the thread-I came across this Home Office letter the other day- dated Sept., 88 and regarding the case of a female originally sent to Wandsworth for 6 months by the committing magistrate of Richmond Surrey, requesting that in future, female prisoners should be sent to Millbank. I think this settles the issue of whether there would have been female prisoner serving actual sentences at Millbank after 1886.

Home Office: Domestic Entry Books HO 43/159 01 January 1888-31 December 1888.

[tnb]

Indeed it does, Debs - good find!

[Debra A]

There you go, still useful for some things.

[Rob Clack]

There you go, still useful for some things.

Knickers

[Debra A]

Knickers

If only! Even there a certain opinion is being promoted! Retirement I think.

[Rob Clack]

If only! Even there a certain opinion is being promoted! Retirement I think.

I know the feeling x

[Debra A]

I know the feeling x

bapsbook rules.

[Debra A]

And right under my nose all this time-Ms Demay, sentenced to 18mos. at Millbank in 1889!

[Debra A]

I was just re-reading this book again today after 3 days without full internet access.
The Rev Merrick included a lot of statistics and descriptions of 'unfortunates' in his work.
One of the things that leapt out at me that I have never noticed before was Merrick's description of the rapid decline in appearance and wealth of those entering the profession compared to those a few months down the line, in terms of fine clothing obtained on loan when setting out.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I was just re-reading this book again today after 3 days without full internet access.
The Rev Merrick included a lot of statistics and descriptions of 'unfortunates' in his work.
One of the things that leapt out at me that I have never noticed before was Merrick's description of the rapid decline in appearance and wealth of those entering the profession compared to those a few months down the line, in terms of fine clothing obtained on loan when setting out.

I’ve just read through this interesting little book Debra. There were some interesting points such as the East End not being proportionately any worse than other areas in regard to crime. It’s was also worth noting that the women spoken to didn’t blame alcohol for their circumstances, but cited it as the only only way of coping with the life that their circumstances forced them into. An effect rather than a cause. I also wonder, when the Reverend found it difficult to understand why these women didn’t like homes and refuges for ‘fallen women’ if these women were simply too respectful or polite to tell him that that didn’t like being treated as morally defected or that they didn’t want to be pummelled with religion however well meaning it might have been?

What stood out the most of course for me, in light of recent debates, is that the term Unfortunate was clearly used solely as a euphemism for prostitute. A fact that shouldn’t be denied.

[harry]

So lets take your claim Herlock,that prostitute and unfortunate was the same thing,and all unfortuntes took money in exchange for sex,because that is what you are implying.First tell me what was meant by being an unfortunate.We know what was meant by being a prostitute.What of the men and children who were classed as unfortunates.Were they prostitutes too?

[Wickerman]

The term "unfortunate" was adopted by the upper classes & most of the press to describe anyone who earned their living by immoral means off the streets, typically by selling their bodies, mostly females of all ages, or young male boys.

[Wickerman]

Shields Daily Gazette, 10 Sept. 1897.

[harry]

What are you trying to prove Jon? Suppose all ten were prostitutes ,and it doesn't state that,does it prove all unfortunates were prostitutes?
Now take the case of Ellen Fisher,daughter of John and Sarah Fisher, of the village of Chisledon,in Wiltshire,born around 1840.She was an unfortunate,She was not a prostituute,nor did she turn to prostitution on becoming an unfortunate.Neither did her two daughters,and there were thousands of like cases to hers in England.Yes,Ellen Fisher was a real person,I can prove it.