How much time did JTR spend with victims?

[JTRSickert]

Hello everyone. It has been awhile since I last posted here, so I thought I would bring up a good topic to talk about with you all. My question is: how long do you think JTR spent with with his victims? Me personally, I think it is hard to say. Howeever, there can be 3 distinct possibilities: 1. JTR hardly spent any time with his victims but just killed them swiftly in a blitz-attack, they didn't know he was coming. 2. Jack spent some considerble time with his victims(e.g., the various sightings of men with Liz the previous hour before she is found murdered, MJK's friendly attitude towards blotchy-faced man and Ashtrakhan man that night), gaining their trust, engaging them in conversation, and maybe even giving them small tokens (example, Polly's "jolly bonnet," MJK's red handkerchief). or 3. JTR made some small-talk, but obly enough to establish a small rapport like between prostitute and client so they would go with him so he could carry out his murder.

[Rubyretro]

I'd plump for the third choice -with the possible exception that he may have known MJK

[Adam Went]

I'd go with the first option, mainly because he would have known the longer he spent with the victim, the more likely he was to get spotted by more witnesses. In other cases, such as Kate Eddowes for instance, she was only released from prison shortly before she was killed, meaning he didn't bother spending too much time with her before going into Mitre Square. The case of MJK is the only exception because it was indoors, out of sight of witnesses, where he had the time and lack of risk to do whatever.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Hunter]

I'm asuming that the first option was that JTR just came across his victims, attacked and killed them. That would be unlikely considering the secluded locations and the probability of these women taking him to these spots... so, I'll take door no. 3.

[JTRSickert]

Interesting hypotheses everyone. But, let's think outside of the box a little, as it were. We're basing our conclusions only on the time frame of an opportunity to kill. Instead, let's focus on the killer's inner needs. For example, in order to "enhance" his fantasy, JTR may have intentionally gotten to know his victims a little before slaughtering them. THey are certain serial killers who have been to known to charm their victims and get a vicarious "thrill" by getting familar with their intended victim and then taking their life. This, in essence, gives him total "control" over them and, in his point of view, is able to possess their life...and death. So, do any of the murders seem to give off this certain point-of-view of the murderer?

[FrankO]

Hi JtRSickert,

I don’t think he spent a lot of time with his victims. He went looking for one and when he found one he accompanied her to the crime spot. He didn’t act too suspiciously right until the moment he launched his attack and then it was too late. I don’t think he needed to gain trust by smooth-talking or giving small gifts. Showing the money and not acting too suspiciously would be good enough for his victims. All in all, I’m somewhere between 1 and 3.

All the best,
Frank

[claire]

I sit between 2 and 3...but that's based on my belief this was a guy who was local or worked in the vicinity, and frequented the women before going rogue. When I say frequent, though, I intend that to mean that he had perhaps availed their services once or twice, or they'd seen him around or had serviced one of his hang-around acquaintances. Always hard to believe 'that' of someone you know.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello everyone. It has been awhile since I last posted here, so I thought I would bring up a good topic to talk about with you all. My question is: how long do you think JTR spent with with his victims? Me personally, I think it is hard to say. Howeever, there can be 3 distinct possibilities: 1. JTR hardly spent any time with his victims but just killed them swiftly in a blitz-attack, they didn't know he was coming. 2. Jack spent some considerble time with his victims(e.g., the various sightings of men with Liz the previous hour before she is found murdered, MJK's friendly attitude towards blotchy-faced man and Ashtrakhan man that night), gaining their trust, engaging them in conversation, and maybe even giving them small tokens (example, Polly's "jolly bonnet," MJK's red handkerchief). or 3. JTR made some small-talk, but obly enough to establish a small rapport like between prostitute and client so they would go with him so he could carry out his murder.

I suppose the Kelly one is the one that seems to add credence to the idea that JTR spent a bit of time with them.

I'd go with the simplest one being the solution.....that being that he was an opportunist....who didn't have a set way of doing things. Probably a bloke who drank in the local pubs.....tearing down his inhibitions.....and met Kelly in a pub....but at other times he found his victim in the street after being in the pub and the only conversation that took place was sufficient to get into a dark corner. A sort of mix and match.

Perhaps JTR wasn't hunting the night of the Kelly murder and on meeting her in the pub an opportunity presented itself in that he realised during the conversation that Kelly might take him back to where she lived. Personally I don't think the escalation in violence was due to him being someone like Barnett taking revenge...I think it was the case that the opportunity to go the whole hog presented itself......but it would be interesting to know if Kelly had form for taking clients back to where she lived....because if not it suggests either a) she knew him and trusted him b) someone slipped the latch while she was sleeping.

[curious]

Interesting hypotheses everyone. But, let's think outside of the box a little, as it were. We're basing our conclusions only on the time frame of an opportunity to kill. Instead, let's focus on the killer's inner needs. For example, in order to "enhance" his fantasy, JTR may have intentionally gotten to know his victims a little before slaughtering them. THey are certain serial killers who have been to known to charm their victims and get a vicarious "thrill" by getting familar with their intended victim and then taking their life. This, in essence, gives him total "control" over them and, in his point of view, is able to possess their life...and death. So, do any of the murders seem to give off this certain point-of-view of the murderer?

Well, there is a fairly long period of time in which no one seems to have seen either Polly Nichols or Annie Chapman until the discovery of their bodies.

They appear to have been completely "off the radar."

Is that what you're considering?

I'm still intrigued by the "coincidence" that so many of the women -- too poor to keep a roof over their heads -- had something new or recently acquired: Polly's bonnet, Annie's rings, Stride's flower and green velvet (although I don't believe Stride to be a JTR victim and realize she had earned money that day), and we have testimony that Kelly was given a red kerchief . . . .

To many coincidences appear in my mind to be a pattern worth looking into.

curious