Who is the most Canonial non-Canonical? POLL

[DVV]

You misquote me and hence are lying? The remark you quote were regarding her talk with the women NOT the doctor, come on.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

Lying ? Certainly not. You misunderstand me and forget the implications of what you've said above.

Fortunately, the problem is quite simple.
She's registered as a married charwoman, but was actually a widow and a prostitute.
For what reason ?
The same that inspired her "gang story".
That's the topic.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

No no, you misquoted me. Took something I had said, put it into another contex and claimed it had a different meaning.

I haven't misquoted you.
I haven't even quoted you, in fact.

Amitiés,
David

[ditlew]

DVV,

You still misundestand me, and moreover, accuse me of lying...

But I haven't misquoted you.
I haven't even quoted you, in fact.

Check post #54. If that ain't a quote I don't know what is? And just to remind you, you can see here why I claim you misquoted me: #56

I'm might have misunderstood you as you claim, if that is that case, you have my appologies.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[DVV]

Strange argument...

Is it more painful to articulate "widow" than "married woman" ?

Would they have asked her details about her sad fall into prostitution before taking care of her health ?

Amitiés,
David

Here's the post 54.
Answering your objection (something like : she didn't talk much cos she was suffering etc), and the words into brackets aren't quoted from you.
I was simply saying that her pain doesn't explain "married woman" and "charwoman" - which are rather an attempt to hide her being a prostitute and a widow.

Hope it's clear now.

Amitiés,
David

[Uncle Jack]

What has to be taken into account is that just because Emma may have lied that still does not mean to say she was attacked by the Ripper.....

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

I was simply saying that her pain doesn't explain "married woman" and "charwoman" - which are rather an attempt to hide her being a prostitute and a widow.

I never claimed that it would, which I fell that you very much implied in your post
#54 and hence my reaction.

All in all I guess I just have to get used you and perhaps others stating your speculations as facts and not as possibilities and leave it at that.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[DVV]

Right, Adam,

but to me the "3 Osborn Street thieves" are even more unlikely than the Ripper.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Ditlew,

we have the right to discuss Emma's case.
All pre-canonicals are "possibilities" ( did I say : "Smith is a Ripper victim, that's a fact"?).
Even Tabram is nothing but a possibility.
That's the very definition of "precanonical".

Amitiés,
David

[Uncle Jack]

Right, Adam,

but to me the "3 Osborn Street thieves" are even more unlikely than the Ripper.

Amitiés,
David

I agree with that statement my friend. If I was to believe anything I would suggest that her attacker may have been her pimp.

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

Ditlew,

we have the right to discuss Emma's case.
All pre-canonicals are "possibilities" ( did I say : "Smith is a Ripper victim, that's a fact"?).
Even Tabram is nothing but a possibility.
That's the very definition of "precanonical".

Of course you have the right, I have never said otherwise? Nor have I said that you claimed that Smith is a Ripper victim?

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[DVV]

Nor have I said that you claimed that Smith is a Ripper victim?

Ditlew

Alas, I wish I could...

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

If I was to believe anything I would suggest that her attacker may have been her pimp.

Hmmm...

Emma's pimp ?
Poor guy.
He wouldn't get enough to eat twice a day, nor to buy brilliantine and two-coloured shoes.

Amitiés,
David

[Howard Brown]

Excuse me Uncle Jack..

You mentioned a "Phoebe" Woolf as being murdered on August 7th, 1891.

This is incorrect. Her true real name was Gertrude Wohler and one week after the attack on Cannon Street, its mentioned in

The Preston Guardian
Saturday, August 15, 1891

...that the old gal survived. The police,as you mentioned, considered the incident self-inflicted. In any event, after a week in The London Hospital, she appears to have pulled through. Additionally, she was not stabbed repeatedly, but slashed twice, once on the arm and obviously,the other on the throat.

[Sox]

Perhaps Sox, who said Smith didn't lie and had no reason to do so, will provide us with an unknown Hospital document registering Smith as an infortunate widow.

Or perhaps, I can come up with another hair brained 'conspiracy'......oh no wait, that's your area of expertise.

From the inquest, Ditlew.
Check the Sourcebook, p 5:

"Smith, who seemed unwilling to go into details, did not describe the men nor give any further account of the occurrence to witness [Mary Russell]."
She actually gave more details to the doctor.
Worth giving it a thought, no

I'll give you a thought. Did it ever even cross your mind that the reason she did not talk to those who took her to the hospital was because.....she just might have been in quite a lot of pain? Or that once a doctor had seen her she was more willing to talk because she had been treated, maybe given morphia?

Of course it didn't.

You have no idea what state this woman was in, we do not even have a statement from her. You utterly ignore the fact that Margaret Hames was attacked in the same area on December 8th 1887, and that she even lodged in the same place as Smith, and that she was so badly injured she spent over two weeks in hospital. You also ignore the fact that Hames was attacked again, on the same night as Smith, by two men, a mere thirty minutes or so before the assault on Emma Smith.....and no PC reported that either.

You claim she's lying because no Police Officer saw or heard anything...umm hello, what are the names of the Policemen who saw Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and Kelly killed?

Even Inspector West says that the two women who took Smith to hospital saw no reason for them to involve the Police.

Now you ignore ALL of that, and come to the conclusion that Emma Smith lied. Brilliant deductive reasoning, maybe Joe Fleming killed her.

[Uncle Jack]

Excuse me Uncle Jack..

You mentioned a "Phoebe" Woolf as being murdered on August 7th, 1891.

This is incorrect. Her true real name was Gertrude Wohler and one week after the attack on Cannon Street, its mentioned in

The Preston Guardian
Saturday, August 15, 1891

...that the old gal survived. The police,as you mentioned, considered the incident self-inflicted. In any event, after a week in The London Hospital, she appears to have pulled through. Additionally, she was not stabbed repeatedly, but slashed twice, once on the arm and obviously,the other on the throat.

How, good day to you

I have previously only seen press reports on this "murder" which stated that the victim had died. There was also some disagreement between police and doctors. The police were convinced that Woolf had done the deed on herself; ie suicide, to help her son claim her will. At the time the doctors believed that she could not have inflicted the injuries herself. I'll have to dig through the press reports I have. They did state that she was stabbed and had died. Thanks for the correction.