Who is the most Canonial non-Canonical? POLL

[DVV]

Hi Ditlew

oh yes she lied. The location is clearly unlikely. There is a good dissertation about that.

Amitiés,
David

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

oh yes she lied.

Pure speculation on your behalf, the location being unlikely or not.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[DVV]

No Ditlew,

there is a bit more than that. She had a reason to lie. Just like Wilson. Unfortunately, in Smith's case, there was no Bierman to tell the truth.
No witness in Smith's case, which is strange - according to the location.
And Reid was positive that there wasn't blood on the spot. Not a single stain.
That is no speculation.

Amitiés,
David

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

Speculations! If you state something as solid as: "ohh yes she lied." You must have something to back it up. Such a thing doesn't exists, hence you should instead have said: "I believe that she it lying", which would be by all means fair. Even the author of the dissertation isn't a as rock solid in his statements as that. The dissertation is full of assumtions and speculations to why she might have lied, but there is not a single evidence that she did, hence any conclusion based on and in this dissertation will never become more than mere speculation.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[DVV]

Well, we can't disagree, no problem.
No blood: this is no speculation.
No witness at the junction of 4 roads : no speculation again.
Reason for lying: just like Wilson: no speculation.
And do you know of a pitiful robbery (she was so poor) that ends with such an awful deed ?
No you don't.

Amitiés,
David

[Hunter]

Although I believe Smith's acount of her attack seems spurious as well, there is much evidence of "High Rip Gangs" attacking "unfortunates" . They may not have known she was broke and could have extracted their vengence on her because of it.

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

Well, we can't disagree, no problem.
No blood: this is no speculation.
No witness at the junction of 4 roads : no speculation again.
Reason for lying: just like Wilson: no speculation.
And do you know of a pitiful robbery (she was so poor) that ends with such an awful deed ?
No you don't.

I see that you like making assumptions and jump to conclutions.

I state nowhere that we can't disagreem, I simply underline that what you present as fact are based on speculation.

Even if evidence isn't found it doesn't mean that a crime didn't take place.

'Wilson lied, hence Emma lied also', likely or not it is called a speculation.

And regarding robberies that ends with rape and or mutilations or vice versa you are again wrong in your assumption that I don't know of any. I'm sure that 5 secs on google will show you multible exambles.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[DVV]

Ditlew,

you should have a little more attention to what I'm saying.
It's in no way about "fact".
No such horrible rape has ever occured in Whitechapel in the circumstances described by Emma Smith.
I'm afraid you'll nothing like this on google.
And once again, yes, I make the assumption that Emma lied, because no woman, even "destitute", would readily admit that all happened in an infamous "secluded" spot.
So yes, if I have to bet, I'd say she lied.
There is a real problem about motive, location and timing, and there is room for doubt.
Once again, that's all I'm saying.

Amitiés,
David

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

So yes, if I have to bet, I'd say she lied.

I would of course claim that it seems likely that atleast one such rape did occour in Whitechapel and so forth, but no matter how much I may disagree with the rest of what you are saying, I respect the single line that I've quoted!

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[DVV]

Thanks Ditlew,

just for the sake of discussion and with all due respect, let me ask you two questions :

- Do you trust Ada Wilson or Rose Bierman ?

- Had Smith died without saying anything, would you believe she had been robbed at the junction of 4 roads by a gang and then raped with a blunt instrument by these same thieves, or rather killed by a vicious client in a secluded spot used by the prostitutes for their business ?

Amitiés,
David

[Uncle Jack]

There is much reason to doubt Smith's account. Add to this the fact that Smith says she was attacked at 1:30am and did not return to 18 George Street until around 4:00am and you see something fishy was going on. In my opinion she did lie but whether or not that means she was attacked by the Ripper is debatable. As David says the lack of knife is there but maybe, if the attacker was the Ripper, he did not go out that night with the intention of attacking. Maybe it was a chance encounter and he did not have his knife on him that particular occasion.

[sdreid]

There were police in and around the area where Smith was attacked and none saw any gangs or heard anything. Her story is highly suspect and the why is open to question. She could have just been hiding her prostitution or covering up for the man who did it because she knew him and was either afraid or didn't want to be responsible for his hanging.

[Sox]

Wow...yet another liar is unmasked by Ripperologists

Emma Smith had no reason to lie about prostituting herself, because it was not a crime in 1888....soliciting was. And Emma Smith is lying, even though a witness testifies to being assaulted in the same place only hours before (oooh and the police didnt see that either) and even though a similar attack had taken place in the same area in December 1887.

[Uncle Jack]

Emma Smith had no reason to lie about prostituting herself.

Even though being a prostitute was common in the East End some of the women may have found it degrading, shameful and embarrassing which would give Emma a reason to lie, to save face so to speak. Add to that the fact that admitting to being a prostitute would surely have landed her in the Whitechapel Workhouse for many weeks if not months. So there was a motive there for lying.

[smezenen]

I voted for the Pinchin Street Torso because I see this type of mutilation as a natural progression from Mary Kelly in that JTR learned with her murder that an indoor killing gives him more time with the body, its then not a far step from killing them in their room to killing them in his room where he can spend even more time. He now must dispose of the body; he can’t just leave it to be found in his room. So he cuts it up and tosses it into a river (Jackson), under a bridge (Pinchin Street), in the unfinished basement of a police building (Whitehall).

P.S. My vote for the Pinchin street Torso is actuall a vote for all the torso killings as I believe they were all by the same hand.