The photographing of Eddowes in situ.

[Rob Clack]

Whereas the equipment which would enable a photographer to take the Goulston Street Wall writing was readily available, yes?

Monty

Yes, because of where the writing was located a normal tripod and flash could have been used.
With Eddowes a downward view would have been the ideal photograph but I don't believe there was tripod capable of holding the camera in that position. Even if there was they would have to wait till daylight to get an appropriate amount of light for the exposure needed.

Rob

[Suzi]

Propped or hung that wasn't really the point. The point was the victims had to be upright for the photographs to be taken.
And none of the other Whitechapel victims were hung from a nail.

Rob

Ergh!! I reckon while the rigor mortis was still around they just stood poor Kate up...Nightmare!

Tripods- hmmmmmmmmm maybe or maybe not in Millers Ct ....back to the 'bundle' as a camera rest 'eh x

[perrymason]

Hi Rob,

My impression was that the angle the photographer could shoot at was adjustable with the Victorian tripod, and similar to the photo in this thread, could shoot pointed up slightly or down as well.

Heres a bit on what were called "detective cameras" in the LVP.....

"Strictly speaking, detective cameras were popular Victorian cameras before the turn of the 19th century that were designed to look something other than a camera. Most were box cameras designed to look like parcels, disguised as watches, binoculars, books, purses, walking sticks, revolvers and rifles, alarm clocks, spyglasses, and so on. Some models were designed to be worn underneath a vest with lens peaking out through a buttonhole and the shutter operated by a long cord. These cameras were popular all over Europe, especially in England, France and Germany. Most are rare and valuable today. As its name implies, Detective cameras were for taking surreptitious pictures and at the beginning the “detective” camera was used by the police and prison authorities. The idea was immediately adopted by the public who used detective cameras for surreptitious snapshots of strangers. This is part of a general trend of the time: the late Victorians loved similar gadgets, and the craze included music boxes that looked like books and boats that looked like giant swans, etc. "

The earliest detective camera was a twin-lens reflex camera designed for police use by the British inventor Thomas Bolas who also coined the term in 1881 (GB provisional patent No. 4823). The Schmid detective camera from 1883 (patent No. 270133) was the first hand-held camera manufactured for sale. This camera employed a newly introduced rapid dry plate film which was fast enough that a tripod was not required in bright daylight.

In 1886 a detective camera was patented by George Eastman and F. M. Cossitt (patent No. 353545) which failed in the market but was a precursor of the famous Kodak handheld camera from 1888. Some of the concepts in the detective camera design were used later in 1888.

In 1890 Thomas H. Blair patented the Hawk-Eye Detective Camera (patent No. 428448) which was a large wood box camera that took 4 x 5 inch photographs on dry glass plates."

I posted this to illustrate that just because portrait style cameras were used in mortuary shots, using a tripod, ...that doesnt mean thats all that was available.

The hand held was patented in 1888, but there were other models that offered some flexibility prior to its release.

The round camera below is a Victorian Detective Camera, and was worn on the waist.

Best regards Rob

[Monty]

Yes, because of where the writing was located a normal tripod and flash could have been used.
With Eddowes a downward view would have been the ideal photograph but I don't believe there was tripod capable of holding the camera in that position. Even if there was they would have to wait till daylight to get an appropriate amount of light for the exposure needed.

Rob

I think you have answered my query, along with Dons opinions.

Thanks chaps.

Monty

[Dr. John Watson]

Hi Bun

I'm very suspicious of those pics- COME IN ROB Mc L !!! The first one maybe- the second one I'm not so sure...
Bertillion was something else when it came to this sort of thing a wonderful man and a total forensic ICON of his time- fingerprints etc etc

- I do think that those pics were taken in a studio though- I guess a day's work lying as a deado may have paid well.

The first two photographs are unquestionably legitimate; the third may be a posed studio shot illustrating the equipment and technique. I can't find this title for sale anywhere, however the book can be viewed and/or downloaded in its entirety at google.com.

[Archaic]

Hi Bun

I'm very suspicious of those pics- COME IN ROB Mc L !!!

- I do think that those pics were taken in a studio though- I guess a day's work lying as a deado may have paid well.

Suzi, the pics are from Paul's book.

I admit that the one with the two neck-wounds looks like she was attacked by a Chupacabra, but I don't think they are indigenous to Germany.

Hi, Dr. Watson; yes, the last photo is clearly staged.

That's why I made a little joke about the man being so conveniently murdered in a professional photography studio.

Cheers, Archaic

[Archaic]

Fridrich Paul's 'Handbook of Criminal Photography' At Open Library

You can read Friedrich Paul's book online at Open Library, but it's in German. I was unable to find an English edition, which is surprising.

http://openlibrary.org/b/OL20477071M..._Gerichte_der_...

Best regards, Archaic

[wisfisher]

Here is a similar Victorian camera for sale. It appears too large to be carried around to crime scenes but you can get a look at the limited tripod adjustments.

http://tinyurl.com/yz9f2kh

Tom

[Archaic]

'History of Early Legal & Forensic Photography' Site

Here's an interesting website which discusses the history of Photography for legal & forensic purposes.

It also shows what is believed to be the earliest "mug-shot," taken in Belgium in 1843.

http://www.forensic-evidence.com/site/EVID/LegalPhotog.html

Cheers, Archaic

[Rob Clack]

These are some drawings of Crime Scene Photographs that appeared in The Illustrated Police News, Saturday 23 April 1887. The crimes took place in France.

Courtesy of Debs.


Rob

[Archaic]

Wow, those are scary!

It's incredible to me that they would publish such graphic images of the victims back then -even in France.

Thank you, Debs & Rob.

Best regards, Archaic