X Marks the spot

[karensa]

Hi all...still new but getting sucked in...I should be sleeping

Question regarding something mentioned on tonight's showing of Jack the Ripper in America - Ed Norris posed a theory about what had been presumed to be an X carved into one of the victims - well, one of James Kelly/John Miller's vics in the US...that maybe it wasn't an X but roman numeral for 10, and noted the 10th ripper victim if he was counting the 5 main ripper victims, the 3 toss up vics, JK's wife, and this vic in the US.

Is there anything else available on this theory? I thought it was pretty clever, something I'd never heard about before, let alone would've thought of so just wondered if there's anything about the ripper vics that could substantiate that possibility more...if JK was the ripper.

If not, is there anything about the marking otherwise?

Thanks - and love this forum, lots of info.




I need sleep, I do. Just can't.

[lynn cates]

parody

Hello Karen. But see how plain the "X" clue is?

First, of the 5 Whitechapel/Spitalfields canonicals, who was in the middle? That's right, Liz Stride. Now who, until recently, was Liz's lover? Right again, Michael Kidney. Hence, he was her ex (X).

Now, in the second part of the double event, which NEW organ was taken from Kate? Yet again! A kidney! You see how clues abound if we look for them?

Finally, just before Miller's court, it is not impossible that the ripper was getting up his courage at a pub. Now if he were also eating, what does one serve in a pub? Bingo! Steak and kidney pie.

So, who's the ripper?

I hope you like my parody of outrageous Ripper books/documentaries and their reasoning.

The best.
LC

[Mrs. E. Nigma]

Hello!

I'm fairly new to this as well, and can say that getting sucked into all this is pretty easy.

I watched the show you mentioned last night as well, and thought that he made a good case against James Kelly. On the other hand, you can make good cases against just about any one of the suspects on the list. I thought his theories had a lot of 'if's, but who's doesn't.

As far as him going to America, I know that they said that he confessed that he went to New York on a boat(i forget the name), but I never heard them say that he confessed when. It felt to me that the investigator made the confession work for his theory. The records said that there was a boat of the same name that Kelly confessed he had taken to New York that had left England in the 1890's, and that some how proved that Kelly was the Ripper and the man that murder those poor women in New York and across the country. My question, is there any proof that he was on it? Can it be proved beyond a resonable doubt that Kelly was on that boat? I don't think so. How many times had that boat made that same trip? Numerous times, I'm sure.

Other than that, I think it's good that it's been brought up for discussion. New theories to toss around and all that.

Best Wishes,
Erynn

[Johnno]

more details

The boat he took to America (in Oct. 1890) was the Zaandam.

A weak link, I find, is the "X". You don't know where on the body the X was, and it seems presumptuous to assume that is a roman numeral 10. None of the other bodies were numbered. He throws in 3 possible victims, Millwood, Wilson, and Tabram, adds the wife, and Bingo, you have 10. There are other possibles, why those 3? I realize that there is some hope/attempt for "good taste", but the autopsy photos we can see are censored, fuzzy, and indistinct. (What did the Romans call that bag and needle unit to get drugs and nourishment into your arm? a "4"?)

Of curse, we can't see Kelly's diary found at the asylum, I assume it was written during his last stay between 1927 and '29. But except for his statement that he was "on the Warpath" (which works for me!), there is nothing to suggest, in our very controlled (by the filmaker) reading of the diary, that he was actually doing the dastardly deeds.

Someone said "case closed", and my apprehension goes up when I hear those words. "Case Closed" Gerald Posner's NOVEL about the Kennedy assasination comes to mind, but there's always the iffy-at-best book by Patricia Cornwell which hopes long babblings about Victorian sociology, and questionable clues in paintings she spent millions on will validate her ideas. Even her Scarpetta novels, which used to be so excellent, have gone downhill.

The show was shown a second time later, and I managed to throw a tape to get it. Next Sunday, they will solve the Kennedy assassination!!!

[Phil Carter]

Lynn,

You forgot about the two V shapes cut into the eyelids of Kelly... V +V = X.

And there some were, all the way along thinking they made an upside down M.!!!!

Lynn is right, it is very, very easy to believe a theory, depending where the "weight" is pushed for our eyes and minds. Leonard Matters probably started it off for the general public with his book, Stephen Knight pushed it along too. Many so called deeply thought out theories are actually deeply thought out cons.
If you want to REALLY find out about JTR, on a balanced viewpoint, reading Philip Sugden's Book will give you a fair viewpoint. It is almost certainly the best of the books to start off with. But warning, once you start you really won't be able to put it down!

best wishes, and welcome to both of the new members above. Lovely to see some new blood ...pardon the pun.

best wishes

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

Question regarding something mentioned on tonight's showing of Jack the Ripper in America - Ed Norris posed a theory about what had been presumed to be an X carved into one of the victims - well, one of James Kelly/John Miller's vics in the US...that maybe it wasn't an X but roman numeral for 10, and noted the 10th ripper victim if he was counting the 5 main ripper victims, the 3 toss up vics, JK's wife, and this vic in the US.

A weak link, I find, is the "X". You don't know where on the body the X was, and it seems presumptuous to assume that is a roman numeral 10. None of the other bodies were numbered.

The "X" was carved into the backside of Brooklyn victim Carrie Brown murdered on 24 April 1891. See "Carrie Brown a.k.a. 'Old Shakespeare'" and specifically the second mortuary photograph from the New York City Municipal Archives at the end of the article.

Chris

[lynn cates]

blew it

Hello Phil. I really blew that one and humbly bow before my senior--in Ripperology, if not chronologically!

All the best.
LC

[mattwill]

I thought the V shapes were carved on Catherine Eddowes. I've never heard of any on Kelly too. Anyway, I always thought they stood for Vincenzo Verzeni.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil. I really blew that one and humbly bow before my senior--in Ripperology, if not chronologically!

All the best.
LC

Lynn,

Age only I think..lol... plus I can JUST remember roman numerals up to 10.... ;-)

best wishes

Phil

[Sam Flynn]

The inverted "V" shapes weren't carved at all, and they weren't strictly "V" shaped either. They were flaps of flesh, roughly triangular in shape but slightly rounded at the apex, which had been peeled up by the knife slicing (horizontally) through the skin overlying Kate Eddowes' cheekbones.