The Double Event

[DVV]

Hi Mike,
the problem with Pipeman is that he doesn't match the Mitre Square suspect.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

it was his inability to properly finish off his first victim that I believe led him to seek out another on the same night.

Hi #6,
That will ever be a possible scenario, but open to question.

Amitiés,
David

[#6.]

Hi #6,
That will ever be a possible scenario, but open to question.

Amitiés,
David

Agreed. But then, very little about this case is NOT open to question to some degree or another.

[kensei]

No one has yet mentioned the third event of that night- Goulston Street. So let me just throw it out there. The Ripper finishes with Catherine within a minute or two of the arrival of PC Watkins at 1:44 so he has to still be very close. Masses of cops are on the streets shortly thereafter looking for him, so wherever he goes he will be running a gauntlet. At 2:20, 36 minutes after the finding of the body, PC Long passes down Goulston Street and finds nothing unusual so Jack hasn't been there yet. At 3:00, 40 minutes later, Long comes by again and finds the piece of bloody apron and the Juwes grafitti. Of course it's been debated endlessly whether Jack actually wrote the grafitti or not, but the apron proves that he was there. It has always struck me how Jack had not yet vacated the area all that time after the murder and was carrying human organs with him yet a huge dragnet failed to capture him. Did he somehow appear normal enough that the cops saw him but didn't stop him, or was he ducking and dodging them the whole time from one dark alley to another, hiding in the shadows with his heart pounding as cop after cop passed by mere yards away? Those seem to be the two options. If it is the second, Jack would seem to be quite the adrenaline junkie and probably felt like a god after managing to get away with it.

[#6.]

... was he ducking and dodging them the whole time from one dark alley to another, hiding in the shadows with his heart pounding as cop after cop passed by mere yards away? Those seem to be the two options. If it is the second, Jack would seem to be quite the adrenaline junkie and probably felt like a god after managing to get away with it.

That's the version that gets my vote.

[Suzi]

For the two girls

It was wonderful that the girls were mentioned on Radio 4'a anniversary spot today! Having a serious think about Liz and Kate tonight!

Cheers girls! We're thinking about you both



Suzi n' Dids xxxxxxxxxxxx

Have started a new thread on this!

[Suzi]

Unless I'm mistaken I am the first to chime in on the anniversary of the infamous murders of Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes which took place exactly 120 years ago tonight (about three and a half hours from now English time as I write this). Having just returned recently from a trip over there on which I visited all the Jack the Ripper sites, I took special note of how both crime scenes now have childrens' playgrounds on them to wash away some (but not all) of the unkind memories. Just thought I'd open up the forum for any and all thoughts on the Double Event on this special day. Did Jack really commit both crimes? How long did it take him to get to Mitre Square from Berner Street? (It took me 14 minutes.) And all the other assorted questions.

Hi Kensei-
I've chimed in and started another thread to spare a moment's thought for the girls tonight-p'raps just think about them and maybe tonight will be a night without analysis -just thoughts 'eh!!! Sorry but I feel strongly about this!

Suz x

[perrymason]

Its 5:30pm on the 30th here, and I suppose 120 years ago Elizabeth Gustavsdotter was finishing up her cleaning, perhaps looking forward to some plans she had, ones that left her sleeping arrangements that night unplanned. Kate Conway nee Eddowes had found some benefactor by this time that Saturday to quench her thirst, in 2 1/2 hours she would be getting tossed into Bishopsgate as "nobody", and released on her own at midnight as "Mary Kelly" of Flower and Dean St,... or was it Fashion St? Having been Jane Kelly of Dorset St when pawning Johns boots, her conversion of the name meant that victim number 4 and victim number 5 of Jack the Rippper both were known as Mary Kelly before they died. Kate only briefly.

I will never forget that these were real people, real women, and there was real suffering, fear and hunger in their poor short lives.

May they rest in peace,... and may their plates be full, and their glasses filled.

Best regards

[The Grave Maurice]

Its 5:30pm on the 30th here, and I suppose 120 years ago....

Isn't your timing twenty-four hours off?

[Sam Flynn]

Isn't your timing twenty-four hours off?

It's a leap-year

[DVV]

No one has yet mentioned the third event of that night- Goulston Street. So let me just throw it out there. The Ripper finishes with Catherine within a minute or two of the arrival of PC Watkins at 1:44 so he has to still be very close. Masses of cops are on the streets shortly thereafter looking for him, so wherever he goes he will be running a gauntlet. At 2:20, 36 minutes after the finding of the body, PC Long passes down Goulston Street and finds nothing unusual so Jack hasn't been there yet. At 3:00, 40 minutes later, Long comes by again and finds the piece of bloody apron and the Juwes grafitti. Of course it's been debated endlessly whether Jack actually wrote the grafitti or not, but the apron proves that he was there. It has always struck me how Jack had not yet vacated the area all that time after the murder and was carrying human organs with him yet a huge dragnet failed to capture him. Did he somehow appear normal enough that the cops saw him but didn't stop him, or was he ducking and dodging them the whole time from one dark alley to another, hiding in the shadows with his heart pounding as cop after cop passed by mere yards away? Those seem to be the two options. If it is the second, Jack would seem to be quite the adrenaline junkie and probably felt like a god after managing to get away with it.

Hi Kensei,
there is another possibility, of course: that PC Long failed to notice the piece of apron at 2:20. In my (too prudent?) opinion, that's what happened.
But if we choose to trust Long and accept that the piece of apron was thrown by the murderer after 2:20, then the man seen (or simply heard?) by Mulshaw at around 4:20 on 31 August could well be the Ripper...

Amitiés,
David

[perrymason]

Isn't your timing twenty-four hours off?

Quite right Grave Maurice, I suppose thats what you get for using that date as reference all the time. Its funny, cause I read this yesterday and actually waited until today to post.

Thanks Maurice, and excuse the mistake. Daydreaming.

Best regards.

[perrymason]

To Kensei,

Its a good question to ask, about how long he was likely carrying around viscera and organs. If he left directly and dropped the apron and PC Long just missed seeing it, perhaps not long at all,.. the dropping of the apron shows it was likely either a result of using it for wiping his hands and no longer needing it, or for carrying his "take" from Mitre and he was close enough to home from Goulston to just pop them in his pocket for the last few minutes outside. (See the Victoria Working Mens Home).

If the apron wasnt in place before 2:20am, when Long didnt see it, then it is unreasonable to assume the man is still on the streets with organs, complete and partial, on him. He must have had a place in this scenario I would think. Which would also mean the placement of the apron is just that, and not a casual discard, because he would have had to go back out on the streets to leave it...after an hour of police activity all around the area.

The timing of that apron piece I believe is the answer to the writing, because if he did purposefully "plant" the apron near Jewish residents, the reference to "Juewes/Juwes" in the writing cannot be ignored. I think it also might reveal the killers ethnicity if so....likely Gentile.

Best regards all.

[#6.]

The timing of that apron piece I believe is the answer to the writing, because if he did purposefully "plant" the apron near Jewish residents, the reference to "Juewes/Juwes" in the writing cannot be ignored. I think it also might reveal the killers ethnicity if so....likely Gentile.

That's assuming he didn't just throw it along the first convenient place he came upon and the writing was already there.

In which case we're spending a lot of time and mental energy chasing a red herring.

[DVV]

That's assuming he didn't just throw it along the first convenient place he came upon and the writing was already there.

In which case we're spending a lot of time and mental energy chasing a red herring.

...in which case we rely on PC Long's statement...

Amitiés,
David