The Double Event

[kensei]

Unless I'm mistaken I am the first to chime in on the anniversary of the infamous murders of Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes which took place exactly 120 years ago tonight (about three and a half hours from now English time as I write this). Having just returned recently from a trip over there on which I visited all the Jack the Ripper sites, I took special note of how both crime scenes now have childrens' playgrounds on them to wash away some (but not all) of the unkind memories. Just thought I'd open up the forum for any and all thoughts on the Double Event on this special day. Did Jack really commit both crimes? How long did it take him to get to Mitre Square from Berner Street? (It took me 14 minutes.) And all the other assorted questions.

[The Grave Maurice]

Yep, Jack was responsible for both murders. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I too have timed the walk between Henriques Street and Mitre Square. I did it in just under 15 minutes. Of course, in 1888, Jack had other alleyways and whatnot available to him (such as Batty's Gardens) and he didn't have to contend with traffic lights and automobiles. Bet he could have covered the distance in 10 minutes.

[Monty]

10 minutes and 120 years years ago, or around that time, Hutt had just checked on Eddowes. And, no doubt, some PC is doing the same at Bishopsgate nick.

I dont think its apt to debate this tonight Kensi, no disrespect intended.

Tonights the night for rememberance...tomorrow we can debate.

Monty

[#6.]

It's still the 29th here in the States so does that mean I can leave an opinion?

I too believe it was JTR who was responsible for both murders. I see what most others see when they look at the crimes. He was disturbed immediately after killing Stride and filled with blood lust went looking for another victim. He stumbled upon poor Catherine Eddowes and the “double event” was the result.

I do not believe he planned it that way, it occurred in that manner simply because he couldn’t properly finish off his original victim. Although he carries no guilt, if Diemschutz hadn’t interrupted him Eddowes would probably have lived or at least, wouldn’t have fell victim to Jack that night at any rate.

That’s how I see it at least.

[The Grave Maurice]

If we're going to start curtailing discussion for the anniversary of all of the Whitechapel murders, there's going to be an awful lot of dead air around here.

[The Good Michael]

If we're going to start curtailing discussion for the anniversary of all of the Whitechapel murders, there's going to be an awful lot of dead air around here.

Dead air, indeed. So thick one can cut it with a, a .... knife?

Mike

[Monty]

#6,

Course you can leave an opinion, who said you couldnt?

Maurice,

Id like to apologise for my respect affecting you in such away. Didnt mean to get in the way of good debate and, of course, like #6, theres nothing stopping you in posting whatever you like whenever you like.

I was merely expressing my personal opinion.

So, after you.

Monty


PS Dead air? Its a website.

[kensei]

I dont think its apt to debate this tonight Kensi, no disrespect intended.

Tonights the night for rememberance...tomorrow we can debate.

Monty

It's still the night where I am, so yes, rememberance then. Elizabeth and Catherine- two very flawed women trying to make their way as best they thought they could in miserable circumstances, just as everyone in the East End, with as many differences as they had similarities. One was newly single, estranged from an abusive man, while the other still had a loving companion. One spent her last night out in the rain, the other singing in a jail cell. One had tried to lie her way through life, the other did her best to look life in the face and laugh at it if she could. One has no known descendants, the other has many. In fairness, both were far from perfect, but neither deserved to die in the way they both did.

[anna]

Hi all,
Last night I saw Monty's post,and thought it was a very nice gesture in honour of the women.
Top man,Monty.
ANNA.

[DVV]

I do not believe he planned it that way, it occurred in that manner simply because he couldn’t properly finish off his original victim.

But had he planned to mutilate a woman near to this club? It seems a bit too risky, even more than 3 weeks before in Hanbury Street.

Amitiés,
David

[The Good Michael]

David,

I think he was a drinker. If so, that would have helped him get over the risk factor.

Mike

[halomanuk]

RIP Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes...

[DVV]

I agree with that, Mike. However, is there a possibility, in your opinion, that JtR had planned to kill twice that night? - For the time of Stride's murder is a bit "early" for the ripper, and the location is a bit strange, too.

Amitiés,
David

[The Good Michael]

David,

He may have been drinking and just stumbled upon stride. Tom has proposed an interesting idea about Pipe man being the Ripper. If so, perhaps his coming out of a tavern just as BS was throwing Stride down and perhaps going into the club, presented a wonderful opportunity for him, or someone else to help her up and then kill her. I don't think Stride was planned.

Cheers,

Mike

[#6.]

But had he planned to mutilate a woman near to this club? It seems a bit too risky, even more than 3 weeks before in Hanbury Street.

Amitiés,
David

I don't think serial killers "plan" a lot about their murders, at least, not the kind that stalk the night. (JtR, Zodiac, The Green River killer, the Atlanta Child murder etc....)

The go out and look for victims. If Stride was all he could find at that moment and he felt he could get away with it then I think he'd have gone for it. A dimly lit little area in a yard with a fence around it would most likely have seemed like the perfect place not to be disturbed to Jack.

Serial Killers like Zodiac and Ted Bundy may have killed more than one person at a time but to the best of my recollection it was because their two victims were together at the moment of the attack. I'm not aware of a case where a serial killer went hunting for two victims at two different locals on one night.

And while that may sound like I"m contridicting myself since that's what I'm arguing JtR did, it was his inability to properly finish off his first victim that I believe led him to seek out another on the same night.