Time Alotted for Murder

[Ryan_Miller]

I was wondering, how much time would Jack have had to complete each murder? I've read the inquests but I'm still not sure what to think about how long he may have really had to do perform all the mutilations. If anyone has any answers I would greatly appreciate your insight.

[Mitch Rowe]

I was wondering, how much time would Jack have had to complete each murder? I've read the inquests but I'm still not sure what to think about how long he may have really had to do perform all the mutilations. If anyone has any answers I would greatly appreciate your insight.

Well.. Let me take a stab at it.(OOPS..Pun not intended.)

Polly: Probably no more thatn 5 mins. JTR only cuts Pollys stomach but performs nothing else.

Annie: 1/2 Hour to 45 Mins.

Kate: Around 15 Mins probably. JTR does alot of stuff as with Annie but he does not take the time to cut skin flaps. Be careful with intestines ect.

Mary: Didnt McNaghton say 2 hours engaged? I would agree.

Anyone object to these times? Im just guessing really.

[Sam Flynn]

My estimates below:

Nichols - 2 to 3 minutes

Chapman - 5 to 6 minutes

Eddowes - 4 to 5 minutes

Kelly - 17 minutes (purely on the mutilations), say 30 minutes in total

(Stride - seconds only)

[kensei]

On Catherine Eddowes, this always freaks me out to think about it--

PC Watkins, walking a beat that takes aprx. 14 minutes, passes through Mitre Square at 1:30 am and sees nothing.

At 1:35 Lawende and company see Catherine talking to a man who pretty much had to be the Ripper just outside the square.

At 1:44 PC Watkins enters the square again and finds Catherine mutilated beyond comprehension, body and face, with her uterus and one kidney missing.

That means the Ripper talked her into coming into the square with him, did so, then attacked and killed her and performed complicated surgical mutilation and organ removal on her in near pitch darkness and then managed to make his escape without a trace... all within nine minutes.

It seems impossible, but somehow it's not, because we know it happened.

[Ben]

Hi Kensei,

If we substituted "performed complicated surgical mutilation" for "rummaged and slashed around for whatever looked interesting", the timings involved in the Mitre Square murder suddently cease to appear problematic or unlikely.

Best regards,
Ben

[Ryan_Miller]

Thanks so much guys. Your insights are very helpful... but I have another question. Some of us, (including me), believe that Martha Tabram was a Ripper murder, so... if we assume she was how long do you think she was worked on? I have a podcast, "rippercast", that i was listening to and Howard (sorry I can't remember his last name) suggested it takes 30 seconds to perform 38 stab wounds, setting the time span of the murder at a mere 45 seconds to a minute. Not only is that remarkable in itself, but he was able to perform this murder just 12 feet away from the room of the owner / supervisor of George Yard, without creating any disturbance.

[tnb]

Ryan- one theory that has been put forward with relevance to various, admittedly obsure, suspects is that 'Jack' actually performed the murders elsewhere and transported the bodies to the location- perhaps from a warehouse or similar. It would certainly help explain the timing of Eddowes and (and I'm with you on this) if we're counting Tabram/Turner the fact that no-one heard or saw anything in such a confined space.

That said I believe the possibility has been widely discredited as it draws a lot on the supposed lack of noise (ie screaming) and blood, both of which there needn't necessarily have been.

As Ben pointed out timings are hard to estimate as it depends a lot on what we assume the killer's intentions were- if he was looking for certain organs you can multiply any estimates tenfold plus; if he was as Ben suggests simply 'rummaging' around then your 45-60 seconds might even be generous- a chilling thought...then again, the sheer opportunism of (as you said) identifying and soliciting the victim, the inevitable preamble, performing the act and THEN escaping seems incredible.

Personally I believe very strongly that if Eddowes was the work of 'Jack' then he was already in or around the square when PC Watkins passed through, perhaps even calculating the time he had before the constable returned.

From a profiling point of view, most serial killers either maintain the same level of violence or escalate it in a fairly predictable pattern- take out Eddowes (where we can argue he may have been interrupted) and, running from Tabram/Turner - Kelly, this latter possibility seems to be the case here. It would certainly be unlikely (unique, probably) for the killer to dramatically change or reduce his violence in the way some (ie Cornwell) have suggested in subsequent years. I would also point out that, while to us they seem equally abhorrent, mutilations are often a unique signifier with some distinct significance to the killer, and there is a world of difference between abdominal/ genital mutilation and taking off whole limbs- it's pseudo-science I know but I would dismiss the torsos on this evidence alone.

If we are to go with a 'storage' theory and I'm being devil's advocate here, as I know it's a bit of a barmy hypothesis, but again profilers have suggested that the location of the first of a series of killings is often the most significant and the closest to the killer's own 'home' location- has anyone ever looked into the alibis of the owners/ supervisors of the empty, dark and supposedly closed George Yard buildings?

I don't know where this leaves MJK- perhaps having sailed close to the proverbial wind during the 'double event', 'Jack', growing increasingly greedy in terms of the time needed for his escalating mutilations, was forced to take the step further into housebreaking in order to buy a whole night's worth of time alone with the body...

[c.d.]

How exactly would the bodies have been transported?

c.d.

[mariag]

Oh, come on.

Did he kill them somewhere else, capture all the blood in a jar then dump it on the ground before plopping them on top of it?