Did the Canonical 5 know each other

[etenguy]

Hi etenguy
I'm not sure the evidence to prove anything will necessarily be out there but it is worth looking. For example; looking through workhouse registers shows that Pearly Poll was admitted to the workhouse infirmary on exactly the same day that Joseph Barnett's brother John was, and that Poll regularly lodged at a lodging house at 4 North East Passage SGE which John Satchel had some hand in, another lodger there was Joseph Barnett but it doesn't tell us that any of them knew each other for sure. The biggest link would be the number of women connected to the case who stayed at 18 or 19 George Street, Spitalfields.

Hi Debra

I agree that if there were any evidence out there, we would probably have seen some of it by now. But then I never expected to find some of the information that has come out in the few posts in this thread. So, absolutely worth a look, I think.

[kjab3112]

Thanks, Jerry.
Yes, it's true what you said about some of the victims living that way which probably makes it less of a significance. Also, Newington casual/vagrant ward was used as a one night stop-off for hawkers (which Annie Chapman, Martha Chapman and Catherine Eddowes all were) travelling to places like Stafford and Woolwich for a days work, probably before returning to their usual lodgings the next night. It's in the casual ward register that the George Hutchinson, groom was staying in 1884,spotted by Pat Marshall. I do wish the casual ward registers for other parish workhouses that had them had survived, I am sure we would see familiar names in the Whitechapel casual ward for example.

I'd be very surprised if anyone hawking out in Stratford would stay at the Newington Workhouse (given Stratford is East of Whitechapel and even now a half hour drive from the Elephant), it should be remembered though that there was a market at the Crystal Palace, only a couple of hours walk from Newington/Walworth Road

Paul

[kjab3112]

Going back to the original post, has anyone looked at their frequented bars. Wouldn't at all be surprised if they may have crossed paths in the varying public houses of Whitechapel

Paul

[Debra A]

I'd be very surprised if anyone hawking out in Stratford would stay at the Newington Workhouse (given Stratford is East of Whitechapel and even now a half hour drive from the Elephant), it should be remembered though that there was a market at the Crystal Palace, only a couple of hours walk from Newington/Walworth Road

Paul

Hi Paul
Vagrants were asked to state where they spent the previous night and also give their destination for the next day. Stratford comes up a lot in the records for both these categories, not necessarily by anyone connected to Whitechapel, although I think that I could find at least one example of both destinations being used.

[Debra A]

Hi Debra

I agree that if there were any evidence out there, we would probably have seen some of it by now. But then I never expected to find some of the information that has come out in the few posts in this thread. So, absolutely worth a look, I think.

Hi etenguy
I just meant it would be very difficult to prove these women knew each other even if we knew places where their paths crossed.

[Sam Flynn]

I just meant it would be very difficult to prove these women knew each other even if we knew places where their paths crossed.

Especially given that the paths of many hundreds, indeed thousands, of rootless people crossed in such places.

[etenguy]

Hi etenguy
I just meant it would be very difficult to prove these women knew each other even if we knew places where their paths crossed.

Especially given that the paths of many hundreds, indeed thousands, of rootless people crossed in such places.

Thanks Debra and Sam

You are both absolutely correct, I do not under-estimate the difficulty in finding any compelling evidence. But establishing whether their paths provably crossed in any meaningful way might be an achievable first step.

[GUT]

Especially given that the paths of many hundreds, indeed thousands, of rootless people crossed in such places.

Yep even today imagine in 1888 Whitechapel.

Many would cross paths and not even know the other existed.

[etenguy]

Yep even today imagine in 1888 Whitechapel.

Many would cross paths and not even know the other existed.

Yes, this might be a fool's errand, and it is almost impossible to prove a negative (that they did not know each other). But, in the absence of a piece of research that has focused on this, it seems worth the effort of looking and seeing what, if anything, is there.

[RockySullivan]

Home run Jerry. This must have been posted before since that article is referred to often with the story about the boy. I think the girls would have known each other, all local working girls working the streets in a small area like that know each other

[Sam Flynn]

Home run Jerry. This must have been posted before since that article is referred to often with the story about the boy. I think the girls would have known each other, all local working girls working the streets in a small area like that know each other

Very different times, Rocky. It was a small area with literally hundreds of people living in every small street, many of them occupying different accommodation on different nights. And they weren't all "working girls" in the modern sense of the word, either. They turned to soliciting when they had to, but that didn't necessarily make them regular prostitutes patrolling the same "beats".

[Sleuth1888]

In my view whether they knew each other is a possibility.

Yes there were thousands of people living in the East End at the time but also its disappointing that when someone suggests the victims may have known each other or even had a passing acquaintance they are derided as a 'conspiracy theorist.'

[etenguy]

Very different times, Rocky. It was a small area with literally hundreds of people living in every small street, many of them occupying different accommodation on different nights. And they weren't all "working girls" in the modern sense of the word, either. They turned to soliciting when they had to, but that didn't necessarily make them regular prostitutes patrolling the same "beats".

Indeed. Simply identifying they were in a position to know each other (used same pubs, lodged in same house etc...) does not necessarily mean they did. A more substantive piece of evidence would be needed. Like the picture of the five woman eating christmas dinner together and giving each other gifts. That picture was compelling for me.

By the way, to save me a smidgen of effort - has anyone a copy of that photo?

No - thought not. That'd be too easy.

[etenguy]

In my view whether they knew each other is a possibility.

Yes there were thousands of people living in the East End at the time but also its disappointing that when someone suggests the victims may have known each other or even had a passing acquaintance they are derided as a 'conspiracy theorist.'

Indeed, though people in this thread have been most respectful and helpful.

I don't have a theory, just a question. A theory might follow if evidence reveals they knew each other.

[Sleuth1888]

Indeed, though people in this thread have been most respectful and helpful.

I don't have a theory, just a question. A theory might follow if evidence reveals they knew each other.

Have you read The Bank Holiday Murders by Tom Wescott? I highly recommend it, there's some interesting theories and interpretation of evidence in there, especially regarding whether some of the victims knew each other.