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The Scotsman Account of the Stride murder

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  • The Scotsman Account of the Stride murder

    The account below, from 1 October 1888, contains some interesting errors. Among these, Diemshitz's wife is referred to as Mrs Lewis. I wonder if this was just a reporting error or if Diemshitz also used this as a surname, which may explain the lack of mention in the census records etc.
    Interesting to see the misinterpretation of the apron in Goulston Street. This article states that the portion of apron belonged to Stride and this showed the murderer had passed along Goulston Street on his way from Berner Street to Mitre Square. This interpretation was obviously in error, but I wonder how widepsread this idea was.
    This article will be going into the Press Reports section.
    Chris



    Londoners awoke yesterday morning to find themselves confronted by the intelligence of two more ghastly and atrocious crimes, both of them similar in their fiendish details to the recent tragedies that have created widespread panic throughout the United Kingdom. The East End, and, indeed, the whole of the Metropolis, in a few hours rang with the sensational intelligence that two more women, both of them of the lower class, both middle aged, and, apparently, possessed of nothing that could tempt a person actuated by motives of gain, had been brutally murdered; and in one of the cases most horribly mutilated. Both murders have taken place in what may be broadly spoken of as the East End. The one occurred within the City bounds; the other in that part of London allotted to the division of the Metropolitan force which has its headquarters in Leman Street, and is technically known as the H Division. So far from displaying a less daring method than the crimes that have preceded them, those of yesterday morning indicate a far greater desperation, combined with cunning, than either the murder of Annie Chapman or that of Mary Ann Nicholls. For both of the tragedies were committed within an hour and three quarters of midnight in thoroughfares not a stone's throw removed from Aldgate and Commercial Road, where people were busily passing to and fro, and where some thousands of persons were standing at their doors chatting prior to retiring to rest.
    The scene of the first discovered tragedy was Berners (sic) Street, Commercial Road. This street is situated but a few hundred yards along the busy east End thoroughfare, turning down to the right opposite No. 57. It is a narrow street, occupied by small dwellings, in which reside a number of artisans, and is by no means of the low description of thoroughfare common in the neighbourhood. Next to the Socialist Club is a yard entered by two large wooden gates, which always remain open. Up this yard on one side is a row of small, dirty looking houses, each of which is tenanted. The other side is skirted by the premises of the club, to which there is a side entrance. At the time the murder was committed some of the people in the small houses had not gone to bed, yet none of them can state that they heard any noise or noticed anything unusual. This is not surprising, since during the time in question the members of the club, who are mostly foreign Jews, were singing songs and making sufficient disturbance to drown any sound the poor woman may have made. Those who know the yard say it would be the last place to select for either evil purpose or for murder, as people are constantly passing up and down. At about one o'clock, when numerous people were walking briskly about, the lights in the house windows indicated that the occupants had not retired to rest, a policeman passed on his beat from Commercial Road down Berners Street, and observed nothing whatever of a suspicious character. Shortly before one o'clock a hawker named Diemshitz, who had just returned from market, entered the yard, and in the shadow came upon the body of a woman. The woman, who was poorly clad, lay on the ground dead, a fearful gash almost severing her head from her body. Apparently she was about 35 years of age. The body was found a considerable distance from any common lodging house, and the supposition is that the poor creature was decoyed from the public thoroughfare to a less frequented spot and brutally murdered. Death must have been instantaneous. The hawker lost no time in communicating with the police. When the officer who was called arrived on the scene he found the poor woman lying on her back in the passage, only a few yards distant from the street pavement. Her throat, as has been said, was cut from ear to ear, and her head and hair lay daffling in a pool of blood. Evidently the assassin had been disturbed in his horrible work, for there can be little doubt that the woman's actual murder would have been followed by an atrocious form of mutilation which was discovered later to have been perpetrated in a second case. Superintendent Arnold, Chief Inspector West, Inspector Pinhorn, and others, accompanied by a medical man, were speedily on the spot. An ambulance was obtained, and the body of the victim was conveyed to the City mortuary, in Golden Lane, while the spot where the body was found was minutely inspected by the officers. On the discovery of the murder the police closed the wooden gates, and barred any one from going either out of the club or the houses. Such of the members of the club as were present at the time were immediately subjected to a minute inspection, their pockets being turned out and their hands looked at for traces of blood. Those residing opposite in the houses also went through the same test.
    Lewis Diemshitz, steward of the International Working Men's Club, and the finder of the body, says -
    I am a traveller by trade, and go to different markets to sell my goods. Yesterday (Saturday) I went to Westow Hill. As the night was so wet I did not stay quite as late as usual. On driving into the yard my pony shied a little in consequence of my cart coming in contact with something on the ground. On looking down I saw the ground was not level, so I took the butt end of my whip and touched what appeared to me in the dark to be a heap of dirt lately placed there - a thing I was not accustomed to see. Not being able to move it I struck a match, and found it was a woman. First of all I thought it was my wife, but I found her inside the club enjoying herself. I said to some of the members, "There is a woman lying in the yard, and I think she is drunk." Young Isaacs, a tailor machinist, went to the door and struck a match, and, to our horror, we saw blood trickling down the gutter, almost from the gate to the club. I and Isaacs ran out for a policeman, but could not find one after traversing several streets; but in the meantime another man from the club, Eagle, ran to the Leman Street Police Station and fetched two policemen, who arrived about seven minutes after the discovery. I discovered the body about one o'clock.
    Mr. Eagle says he went to the club about twenty minutes to one o'clock, or twenty minutes before Diemshitz passed up the yard, but did not notice anything. Still, as he stated, he walked quickly and proceeded up the centre of the yard, so, possibly, had the woman been lying there he might not have noticed her.
    The Policeman who was upon duty at the time affirms that as he passed up Berners Street he noticed a man and a woman talking together not far from the yard. The man he did not see, but the woman he fancies he might identify.
    Dr. Blackwell says - At about ten minutes past one I was called to 40 Berners Street by a policeman, where I found a woman who had been murdered. Her head had been almost severed from her body. She could not have been dead more than twenty minutes, the body being perfectly warm. The woman did not appear to be a Jewess, but more like an Irish woman. I roughly examined her, and found no other injuries but this. I cannot definitely state until I have made a further investigation of the body. She had on a black velvet jacket and black dress of different material. In her hand she held a box of cachous, whilst pinned in her dress was a flower. Altogether, judging from her appearance, I should say she belonged to the immoral class; at least her general get up would lead me to suppose that. I have no doubt that the same man committed both this and the murder that was discovered later, and should say he is a maniac, but one at least who is accustomed to use a heavy knife. I should say that as the woman held sweets in her left hand, that her head was dragged back by means of a silk handkerchief she wore round her neck, and her throat was then cut. One of her hands, too, was smeared with blood, so she may have used this in her rapid struggle. I have no doubt that the woman's windpipe being completely cut through, she was unable to make any sound. I might say it does not follow that the murderer would be bespattered with blood; for, as he is sufficiently cunning in other things, he could contrive to avoid coming in contact with the blood by reaching well forward.

    FURTHER STATEMENTS AS TO THE FIRST MURDER

    Abraham Hershburg, a young man living at 28 Berner Street, says:-
    I was one of those who first saw the murdered woman. It was about a quarter to one o'clock, I should think, when I heard a policeman's whistle blown, and came down to see what was the matter in the gateway. Two or three people had collected, and when I got there I saw a short, dark young woman lying on the ground with a gash between four and five inches long in her throat. I should think she was from 25 to 28 years of age. Her head was towards the north wall, against which she was lying. She had a black dress on, with a bunch of flowers on her breast. In her hand there was a little piece of paper containing five or six cochous (sic). The body was not found by Koster, but by a man whose name I do not know - a man who goes out with a pony and barrow, and lives up the archway, where he was going, I believe, to put up his barrow on coming home from market. He thought it was his wife at first, but when he found her safe at home he got a candle and found this woman. He never touched it till the doctors had been sent for. The little gate is always open, or, at all events, always unfastened; but I don't think the yard is one which is used by loose women. There are some stables in there - Messrs. Duncan Woollatt & Co.'s, I believe - and there is a place to which a lot of girls take home sacks which they have been engaged in making, none of them, though, about after one o'clock on Saturday afternoon. None of us recognised the woman, and I don't think she belongs to this neighbourhood. She was dressed very respectably. There seemed to be no wounds on the body. About the club? Oh yes; it would be open till two or three this (Sunday) morning. I suppose it is a Socialist club, and there are generally rows there. Both men and women go there. They have demonstrations up there, and concerts, for which they have stage and piano. There was a row there last Sunday night. It went on till about two in the morning, and in the end two people were arrested.
    The house which adjoins the yard on the south side, No 38, is tenanted by Barnett Kentorrich who, interrogated as to whether he had heard any disturbance during the night, said -
    I went to bed early and slept till about three o'clock, during which time I heard no unusual sound of any description. At three o'clock some people were talking loudly outside my door, so I went to see what was the matter and learned that a woman had been murdered. I did not stay out long, and know nothing more about it. I do not think the yard bears a very good character at night, but I do not interfere with any of the people about here. I know that the gate is not kept fastened. The club is a nasty place. In this view Mrs. Kentorrich, who had come up from the underground kitchen to take part in the colloquy, thoroughly agreed, and both she and her husband, in reply yo further questions, corroborated Heshburg's statement as to women and girls being taken to the Club, and as to disorders which sometimes took place there. In order to inquire further into these matters the Central News representative next visited the club referred to - a rather low class little building covered with posters, most of them in the Hebrew language.
    Mrs. Lewis, wife of the steward, as she explained, was standing at the door the centre of a knot of people, but she declined to call up her husband, who had been up all night, and had only just gone to bed. Pressed to speak as to the character of the club, Mrs. Lewis was inclined to be reticent; but a young man in the crowd volunteered an explanation of the ill feeling which existed in the district as to the institution. "You see," he explained, "the members are 'bad' Jews - Jews who don't hold their religion - and they annoy those who do in order to show their contempt for the religion. At the black fast a week or two ago, for instance, they had a banquet and ostentatiously ate and drank, while we might do neither. They have concerts there till early in the morning, and women and girls are brought here."
    "Were any here last night?" asked the reporter.
    "No," said Mrs. Lewis; "there were only a concert and discussion on last night."
    The young fellow who had previously spoken gave some further details at second hand as to the finding of the body by Lewis, but he could add no further facts to those given in the above statements.
    Morris Eagle, a Russian Jew, says:-
    I frequent this club, and I was passing into it so late as twenty minutes to one this (Sunday) morning, which was just twenty minutes before the body was discovered. I had been there earlier in the evening, but left about twelve o'clock in order to take home my young lady. When I returned I came along by the small streets in this district, but noticed nothing unusual. There were a number of men and women about, as there always are about that time, but the streets were not more lively than usual, and I saw nothing suspicious. When I got back to the club in Berner Street the front door was closed, and so I passed through the gate on the left hand side of the house to get in by the side door. I went over the same ground as Diemshitz did later on, but I saw nothing on the ground. The gates were thrown wide; in fact, it is very seldom that they are closed. It is customary for members of the club to go in by the side door, to prevent knocking at the front. There is no light in the yard, but, of course, there are lamps in the street. After I got into the club there was some singing, and after I had been in twenty minutes a man came in and said something about a woman being in the yard. I went into the yard and struck a match, and then I could see that there was blood on the ground. I heard Diemshitz calling for the police, and I ran into Commercial Road. I found two officers at the corner of Christian Street, and told them what was the matter. When one of the policemen saw the blood he sent his companion for a doctor. In the meantime I went straight to Leman Street, and called out an inspector. I did not notice the appearance of the young woman, because the sight of the blood upset me, and I could not look at it.
    Isaac M. Kozebrodski, a young Russian Pole, who spoke the English language perfectly, gave the following information:-
    I was in this club last night (Saturday.) I came in about half past six in the evening, and I have not been away from it since. About twenty minutes to one this (Sunday) morning Mr. Diemshitz called me out into the yard. He told me there was something in the yard, and told me to come and see what it was. When we had got outside he struck a match, and when we looked down on the ground we could see a long stream of blood. It was running down the gutter from the direction of the gate, and reached to the back door of the club. I should think there was blood in the gutter for a distance of five or six yards. I went to look for a policeman at the request of Diemshitz or some member of the club, but I took the direction towards Grove Street and could not find one. I afterwards went into the Commercial Road, and there, along with Eagle, found two officers. The officers did not touch the body, but sent for a doctor. A doctor came, and an inspector arrived just afterwards. While the doctor was examining the body I noticed that she had some grapes in her right hand and some sweets in her left. I think she wore a dark jacket and a black dress. I saw a little bunch of flowers stuck above her right bosom.
    Joseph Lave, a man just arrived in England from the United States, and who is living temporarily at the club until he can find lodgings, says:-
    I was in the club yard this (Sunday) morning about twenty minutes to one. I came out first at half past twelve to get a breath of fresh air. I passed into the street but did not see anything unusual. The district appeared to be quiet. I remained out until twenty minutes to one, and during that time no one came into the yard. I should have seen anybody moving about there.
    Several members of the club, including the steward, stated that the yard adjoining the building has never been used for evil purposes. The traffic there is constant, and continues almost all the night through.

    DESCRIPTION OF A SUSPECT
    The following is a description of a man who was seen in the company of the woman found murdered in Berners Street a short time before the commission of the crime; aged about 28, and in height 5 feet 8 inches or thereabouts, complexion dark and wearing a black diagonal coat and hard felt hat, collar and tie, and was carrying a newspaper parcel. The man was also of a respectable appearance.

    THE SCENE OF THE FIRST MURDER
    The yard in which the body was found is (says the Central News) about ten feet wide. This width is continued for a distance of eight or ten yards, at which point there occurs on the left hand side a small row of houses, which are set back a little, so that the width is increased by two feet or more. The extreme length of the court is 30 yards, and it terminates in a workshop, which is at present used as a dwelling house. The spot where the murder was committed, therefore, is overlooked on three sides; and, inasmuch as the gates were open on Saturday night, any casual pedestrian might easily have seen the commission of the crime. The windows of the club room are within ten feet of the spot, while the cottages stand almost opposite, and command a complete view of it. None of the occupants of these houses, however, heard the faintest noise in the course of Saturday night or Sunday morning. The residents in the yard are tailors and cigarettes makers, and they are not in the habit of retiring very early. A reporter who made inquiry amongst them, however, was unable to find any person who had either seen or heard anything suspicious. The club spoken of is occupied by what is known as the National Workmen's Educational Society, and is affiliated to the Socialist League, of which it is a foreign branch. Its members seem to be largely composed of Russian Jews, and Jews of other nationalities also find a welcome there. Many of them live on the premises, which, however, are not extensive. At the back there is a fair sized hall made by demolishing the partition between two rooms, and here on Saturday night the members gathered for the purpose of debate and amusement. On Saturday last the debate was largely attended by Germans, nearly a hundred being at one time in the room, and the subject of discussion, which was "Is it necessary that a Jew should be a Socialist?" proved so interesting that it was carried on to a late hour. After it had terminated there was a concert, at which thirty persons remained. There was considerable singing, and there is no doubt that the noise would have drowned any outcry which might have been made by the wretched creature who was being murdered in the yard beneath.
    Berners Street is in a very notorious part of Whitechapel. It is close to a district which was formerly known as "tigers' bay," because of the ferocious character of the desperadoes who frequented it. A few yards distant is the house wherein Lipski murdered Miriam Angel, and the neighbourhood generally has an evil repute. During the course of yesterday thousands of persons congregated in the vicinity of the scene of the crime, and it was with the greatest difficulty that the police could keep the street clear. The bulk of the residents are Jews. At the back of the Workmen's Club there is a Jewish paper published, called The Workmen's Friend, which is printed in Hebrew, and shops and lodging houses kept by Jews are very frequently met with.
    The body of the murdered woman, which now lies in St. George's mortuary, close to St. George's parish church, presents a dreadful spectacle. It is that of a woman about forty years of age, and as it lies on the slab it exhibits prominently a fearful wound on the throat. The head is slightly thrown over to the right, and the gaping orifice is so clearly scooped out that the divisions of the jugular vein and the windpipe can be easily seen. The knife or other implement with which the deed was committed must have been of large size, and very keen, and the wound is so wide that there is room for the supposition that after the blade had been inserted it was partially turned, and then drawn with great force from left to right. In the pockets were found two handkerchiefs - one a man's, the other a woman's - and a thimble and a skein of black worsted. There were no rings on the fingers. The height of the deceased is about 5 feet 5 inches. In her jacket was pinned a small bunch of roses and ferns. Her hair was matted with wet dirt, showing that a struggle had taken place on the ground. It is not believed, however, that the woman was in a recumbent position when attacked, the theory being that the murderer was standing with his left arm around her neck, and that while so placed he drew his knife and inflicted a mortal wound. The position of the body when found favours this view, inasmuch as no attempt had been made to disarrange the clothing, and the woman was lying in an almost natural attitude, with her head towards the bottom of the yard at 40 Berners Street, and the legs towards the gates.
    After the police authorities had been notified of the murder the case was given into the hands of Chief Inspector Swanson and Inspector Abberline, of Scotland Yard. In the first instance, the police turned their attention to the Working Men's Club. The doors were guarded, and no person was allowed egress. After the body had been removed to St. George's mortuary the detectives entered the club and made a careful examination of the inmates. Their pockets were searched, their hands and clothing particularly scrutinised, and some of them allege that they were made to take off their boots. All knives had to be produced, and each man had to give an account of himself before he was allowed to depart. Some of the members say that the detectives treated them badly, swearing at them, and shouting, "You're no foreigners, or else where's your knives." As a matter of fact, however, the police found nothing suspicious in the club or upon its members. Some of the neighbours were also subjected to investigation, but no clue was found. It may be mentioned here that the police discovered no blood splashes upon the wall in the yard. They caused the blood which had flown down the gutter to be removed at an early hour. The information of the crime reached Leman Street police station at ten minutes past one o'clock, and Dr. Phillips, of 2 Spital Square, the divisional police surgeon, was immediately communicated with. After he had made an external examination of the body, it was removed to St. George's mortuary, where the post mortem will be made today. In the course of yesterday Sir Charles Warren, Chief Commissioner of Police, visited the scene of the murder. A woman's apron was yesterday found in Glouston (sic) Street, which is believed to have belonged to the deceased. It is suggested, therefore, that the murderer travelled to Mitre square, the scene of the second murder, by way of Glouston Street, and took away the apron for the purpose of cleaning his weapon upon it. The police of the district believe that the woman formerly walked the streets about St. George's, but they have lost sight of her in the last eighteen months. In consequence of the many murders in the locality, the police force at Leman Street and Commercial Street stations has recently been augmented from King Street, Scotland Yard, and other centres. This has been done as a matter of precaution, as in some quarters a disposition is manifested to cast upon the Jewish population of the neighbourhood the responsibility for the murders.
    The following is a description of a man stated to have been seen in company with the woman murdered in Berners Street, and for whom the police are looking:-
    Age 28, height 5ft. 8in., complexion dark, no whiskers, black diagonal coat, hard felt hat, collar and tie; carried newspaper parcel; was of respectable appearance

  • #2
    This is worth having a close look at.

    Firstly, in regards to how it was initially supposed (presumably by the police) that Stride ended up in Dutfield's Yard:

    The body was found a considerable distance from any common lodging house, and the supposition is that the poor creature was decoyed from the public thoroughfare to a less frequented spot and brutally murdered.

    Sounds much more plausible than the story offered by Israel Schwartz.
    I wonder why the police (other than Abberline) ever went away from this explanation - or did they?

    An ambulance was obtained, and the body of the victim was conveyed to the City mortuary, in Golden Lane, while the spot where the body was found was minutely inspected by the officers.

    Could they have possibly missed a grape stalk?
    If no, then it was likely planted there, most likely by Le Grande and Batchelor, working for the vigilance committee.
    How does that reflect on the WVC?
    Furthermore, the grapes story takes Stride off the club property, in the hour or so before her death.
    The club benefits from this, as it lowers suspicions that the club might have been involved with the murder.

    Lewis Diemshitz, steward of the International Working Men's Club, and the finder of the body, says -
    I am a traveller by trade, and go to different markets to sell my goods. Yesterday (Saturday) I went to Westow Hill. As the night was so wet I did not stay quite as late as usual. On driving into the yard my pony shied a little in consequence of my cart coming in contact with something on the ground. On looking down I saw the ground was not level, so I took the butt end of my whip and touched what appeared to me in the dark to be a heap of dirt lately placed there - a thing I was not accustomed to see. Not being able to move it I struck a match, and found it was a woman.


    So Diemschitz goes to the markets quite often - perhaps every day of the week except Sunday.
    He refers to the pony as 'my pony' and the cart as 'my cart'.
    There is a pile of dung in the backyard of 40 Berner street.
    Where does Diemschitz really keep his pony and cart?
    What sort of goods does he take to the markets?

    [DN1001] The man possesses a pony-cart, with which he is usually out during the greater part of the day, selling, it is said, cocoanuts and sweets.

    I wonder if those sweets include the type found in Stride's right hand, by Edward Spooner?
    These were wrapped in tissue paper, as though they were of the homemade, and not commercial variety.

    Diemschitz alludes to his cart colliding with the victim when he says '...my pony shied a little in consequence of my cart coming in contact with something on the ground.'
    There were no marks on Strides body, that would indicate being struck by a cart.
    The stone ground of the passageway was quite rough, so it must have been a major bump for not only Diemschitz to notice, but to also cause the pony to shy as a consequence.
    So it is reasonable to conclude that Diemschitz was not being honest on this point.
    By the time of his inquest appearance (that is, the following day), the collision is not mentioned, indicating his story has been refined in the meantime.

    First of all I thought it was my wife, but I found her inside the club enjoying herself. I said to some of the members, "There is a woman lying in the yard, and I think she is drunk." Young Isaacs, a tailor machinist, went to the door and struck a match, and, to our horror, we saw blood trickling down the gutter, almost from the gate to the club. I and Isaacs ran out for a policeman, but could not find one after traversing several streets; but in the meantime another man from the club, Eagle, ran to the Leman Street Police Station and fetched two policemen, who arrived about seven minutes after the discovery. I discovered the body about one o'clock.

    So Diemschitz goes straight in to find his wife. Arbeter Fraint paints quite a different picture:

    From excitement he jumped off the cart, ran through the back door into the club and raised an alarm. Immediately Comrade Gilyarovsky ran into the printing shop and editor’s office that are located in the same building as the club, but separated in the back by the yard. There was no one in the printing shop. Comrades Krants and Yaffa were busy in the editor’s office.

    So was he desperate to find his wife, or firstly alert his comrades at the back of the building?
    Note also the timings given - the 'two policemen, who arrived about seven minutes after the discovery. I discovered the body about one o'clock.'
    So he is claiming Lamb and Collins arrived about 7 minutes after he discovered the body, which was about 1 am.

    Abraham Hershburg, a young man living at 28 Berner Street, says:-
    I was one of those who first saw the murdered woman. It was about a quarter to one o'clock, I should think, when I heard a policeman's whistle blown, and came down to see what was the matter in the gateway. Two or three people had collected, and when I got there I saw a short, dark young woman lying on the ground with a gash between four and five inches long in her throat. I should think she was from 25 to 28 years of age. Her head was towards the north wall, against which she was lying. She had a black dress on, with a bunch of flowers on her breast. In her hand there was a little piece of paper containing five or six cochous (sic).


    So why does Hoshberg (aka Ashbrigh) hear a policeman's whistle?
    The obvious answer is that he must have arrived after Lamb and Collins, and either of these are responsible for the sound that Hoshberg hears.
    However, this cannot be true, for a few reasons.
    Firstly, Hoshberg reports only 2 or 3 people being in the yard when he arrives. In contrast, Lamb estimates around 30.
    Hoshberg gets very close to the body - close enough to estimate the number of cachous in the paper in the hand.
    This would not be occurring if a PC were on site and with the victim - members of the public would then have to keep their distance.
    Also, Hoshberg is not the only person to hear this mysterious whistle...

    [T1003] Edward Spooner: As I was going to Berner-street I did not meet any one except Mr. Harris, who came out of his house in Tiger Bay (Brunswick-street). Mr. Harris told me he had heard the policeman's whistle blowing.

    Spooner arrived at the yard about 5 or 6 minutes before Lamb, stood guard over the body for most of that time, and then helped Lamb close the gates.
    Therefore, Mr Harris must have heard the whistle, before the first PCs arrive.
    So why do at least two people hear what sounds like a policeman's whistle?

    [Hoshberg] The body was not found by Koster, but by a man whose name I do not know - a man who goes out with a pony and barrow, and lives up the archway, where he was going, I believe, to put up his barrow on coming home from market. He thought it was his wife at first, but when he found her safe at home he got a candle and found this woman. He never touched it till the doctors had been sent for.

    According to Ripper Confidential, 'Joseph Koster' is an alias of Edward Spooner's.
    I'm not 100% convinced of this.

    [IT1001] About five minutes to one o'clock this morning a youth about twenty years of age named Joseph Koster was accosted by a little boy who came running up to him as he was passing on the opposite side of 40 Berner street, used by the International Socialist Club, and told him that a woman was lying in the gateway next to the club, with her throat cut. Koster immediately ran across the road and saw a woman lying on her side in the gateway leading into Dutfield's stabling and van premises.

    Does that sound at all like Spooner's inquest testimony?

    Mrs. Lewis, wife of the steward, as she explained, was standing at the door the centre of a knot of people, but she declined to call up her husband, who had been up all night, and had only just gone to bed. Pressed to speak as to the character of the club, Mrs. Lewis was inclined to be reticent; but a young man in the crowd volunteered an explanation of the ill feeling which existed in the district as to the institution. "You see," he explained, "the members are 'bad' Jews - Jews who don't hold their religion - and they annoy those who do in order to show their contempt for the religion. At the black fast a week or two ago, for instance, they had a banquet and ostentatiously ate and drank, while we might do neither. They have concerts there till early in the morning, and women and girls are brought here."
    "Were any here last night?" asked the reporter.
    "No," said Mrs. Lewis; "there were only a concert and discussion on last night."


    So on nights set aside for political discussion, women and girls are not brought to the club.
    On other nights, they are. Very progressive.
    I wonder if the men have these females performing for them, up on the club stage?

    Morris Eagle, a Russian Jew, says:-
    I frequent this club, and I was passing into it so late as twenty minutes to one this (Sunday) morning, which was just twenty minutes before the body was discovered. I had been there earlier in the evening, but left about twelve o'clock in order to take home my young lady. ... When I got back to the club in Berner Street the front door was closed, and so I passed through the gate on the left hand side of the house to get in by the side door. I went over the same ground as Diemshitz did later on, but I saw nothing on the ground. ... It is customary for members of the club to go in by the side door, to prevent knocking at the front. ... After I got into the club there was some singing, and after I had been in twenty minutes a man came in and said something about a woman being in the yard. I went into the yard and struck a match, and then I could see that there was blood on the ground. I heard Diemshitz calling for the police, and I ran into Commercial Road. I found two officers at the corner of Christian Street, and told them what was the matter. When one of the policemen saw the blood he sent his companion for a doctor. In the meantime I went straight to Leman Street, and called out an inspector.


    Interesting that Eagle says 'It is customary for members of the club to go in by the side door, to prevent knocking at the front.'
    Earlier in the report:
    Those who know the yard say it would be the last place to select for either evil purpose or for murder, as people are constantly passing up and down.
    And later:
    Several members of the club, including the steward, stated that the yard adjoining the building has never been used for evil purposes. The traffic there is constant, and continues almost all the night through.
    So how many people are we led to believe, passed along the passage after Eagle at 12:40, and prior to Diemschitz' arrival at about/exactly 1 am?
    Answer: Zero
    That number covers the people in the adjacent cottages, some of these being awake at the time of the murder.
    In this period, no one seems to have used either of the outside water closets, no one left the club, and no one went out for fresh air.

    So at what time did Eagle reach Leman street police station?

    The information of the crime reached Leman Street police station at ten minutes past one o'clock, and Dr. Phillips, of 2 Spital Square, the divisional police surgeon, was immediately communicated with.

    Eagle cannot leave the yard for the station, until after Lamb and Collins arrive and take control of the situation.
    Only then can Eagle be dispatched.
    Contrast this with the arrival times given in Ripper Confidential:

    @1:00 Diemschitz
    ~1:05 Spooner
    ~1:10 Lamb
    ~1:12 Johnston

    Yet it would appear that by 1:10, news of the murder has already reached Leman street.
    It is also worth marvelling at how PC Collins manages to race off to Blackwell's surgery at 100 Commercial Road, inform Johnston of the situation, wait while Johnston wakes the sleeping doctor and passes on the information, then heads back to #40 Berner with Johnston, in a total time of approximately 120 seconds.
    Impressive!

    Joseph Lave, a man just arrived in England from the United States, and who is living temporarily at the club until he can find lodgings, says:-
    I was in the club yard this (Sunday) morning about twenty minutes to one. I came out first at half past twelve to get a breath of fresh air. I passed into the street but did not see anything unusual. The district appeared to be quiet. I remained out until twenty minutes to one, and during that time no one came into the yard. I should have seen anybody moving about there.


    What he should have seen within that 10 minute period, was the soon to be victim, standing next to a man who held a newspaper parcel that was uncannily similar in its dimensions, to the newspaper printed in the back office.

    The body of the murdered woman, which now lies in St. George's mortuary, close to St. George's parish church, presents a dreadful spectacle. It is that of a woman about forty years of age, and as it lies on the slab it exhibits prominently a fearful wound on the throat. The head is slightly thrown over to the right, and the gaping orifice is so clearly scooped out that the divisions of the jugular vein and the windpipe can be easily seen. The knife or other implement with which the deed was committed must have been of large size, and very keen, and the wound is so wide that there is room for the supposition that after the blade had been inserted it was partially turned, and then drawn with great force from left to right. In the pockets were found two handkerchiefs - one a man's, the other a woman's - and a thimble and a skein of black worsted. There were no rings on the fingers. The height of the deceased is about 5 feet 5 inches. In her jacket was pinned a small bunch of roses and ferns. Her hair was matted with wet dirt, showing that a struggle had taken place on the ground.

    So the knife was probably longer than the gap between neck and wall.
    To position a long knife under the neck, while keeping clear of the wall, would probably require a reverse grip...

    Click image for larger version

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    see Grip Techniques

    The problem is that this grip is best for exerting downward pressure, whereas the killer needs upward and horizontal force, to cut into the left carotid artery.
    Pivoting the elbow is going to bring the knife into a vertical position, as in the picture.
    Yet the actual cut, although tapering off on the right side, nonetheless requires the knife to go around the neck, well past the midpoint.
    That is going to be very difficult with a reverse grip.
    This also has to occur in near darkness.
    To make this even more awkward, the knot of the scarf Stride is wearing, has been pulled to her left side (if we are reading Phillips correctly).
    The killer has to pull upward on the scarf, to gain clearance to the neck's left side, then cut the throat without slicing his own fingers.
    Would all this really have been possible to achieve where Stride was found, or was the murder and discovery locations, not one and the same?
    Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

    Comment


    • #3
      Given the myriad of errors in the Scotsman article it can't be used as the basis for any argument.
      Regards, Jon S.

      Comment


      • #4
        You're wrong.
        One of the (apparent) errors is explained by Chris Scott:

        Among these, Diemshitz's wife is referred to as Mrs Lewis. I wonder if this was just a reporting error or if Diemshitz also used this as a surname, which may explain the lack of mention in the census records etc.

        In other words, this may not be an error at all, but indeed an important piece of information for researchers.
        The only important error is the source of the apron - due to some inaccurate early information received by the Scotsman - but not critical to the remainder of the article.

        Otherwise, most of content I use here is just quotes (and some of those are from other papers).
        Are you suggesting that the Scotsman was not capable of recording quotes from witnesses, unlike virtually all other papers of the time?
        Are you also suggesting that other papers were virtually error free?
        What is your gold standard here?

        You are also wrong to state that I use this article 'as the basis for an argument'.
        That is a total misrepresentation of what I've done, which is to look at and discuss the article, section by section.
        Why are you seeking to misrepresent what I'm doing?

        I think the real problem may be that this article brings up too many uncomfortable issues for you, so you dismiss it with a sweeping generalization.
        Last edited by NotBlamedForNothing; 04-16-2020, 02:45 AM.
        Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

        Comment


        • #5
          Not uncommon for Western Europeans,and some Asians for that matter,to call people Mr and then their first name.

          Could not get my landlord in Brisbane during the mid 1970s to call me David or Dave. It was always Mister David,even if having a brandy at his house.Seemed to be a courteous form of respect.

          Louis/Lewis .... meh. She was his wife.
          Last edited by DJA; 04-16-2020, 04:48 AM.
          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

          Comment


          • #6
            The Scotsman names him as "Lewis Diemschutz", so "Mrs Lewis" seems plausible, as Dave mentioned.

            It can be debated if the article is strewn with errors. What it certainly has is conjecture, albeit sourced from people at the scene, but conjecture none the less. Understandable given the circumstances.

            NBFN - So, if the grape stalk was planted by the WVC, and this also takes Stride away from the club premises to the advantage of the club members, does that imply that both the International Club and the WVC were in cahoots, or is it a bizarre coincidence? If the plot thickens any more it's going to turn into a Cohen brothers film.
            Thems the Vagaries.....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
              The Scotsman names him as "Lewis Diemschutz", so "Mrs Lewis" seems plausible, as Dave mentioned.
              [EN1001] Fanny Mortimer: I was just about going to bed, sir, when I heard a call for the police. I ran to the door, and before I could open it I heard somebody say, 'Come out quick; there's a poor woman here that's had ten inches of cold steel in her.' I hurried out, and saw some two or three people standing in the gateway. Lewis, the man who looks after the Socialist Club at No. 40, was there, and his wife.

              On the subject of errors, there are some published opinions that state that Fanny was locked out of the yard, when the gates were closed.
              It would appear from this quote, that that was not the case - more like she was called into it.
              However, I'm not about to jump from there, to saying that those publications are therefore worthless.

              It can be debated if the article is strewn with errors. What it certainly has is conjecture, albeit sourced from people at the scene, but conjecture none the less. Understandable given the circumstances.
              The issue of how Stride was actually murdered, transcends any one newspaper report.
              However, there is a good range of issues in that article, so I thought giving my thoughts on some of it might trigger some worthwhile discussion.
              For example, the mention of how Stride actually ended up in Berner street, is an interesting topic (might go there soon).
              So is this:

              Isaac M. Kozebrodski, a young Russian Pole, who spoke the English language perfectly, gave the following information:-
              I was in this club last night (Saturday.) I came in about half past six in the evening, and I have not been away from it since. About twenty minutes to one this (Sunday) morning Mr. Diemshitz called me out into the yard. He told me there was something in the yard, and told me to come and see what it was. When we had got outside he struck a match, and when we looked down on the ground we could see a long stream of blood. It was running down the gutter from the direction of the gate, and reached to the back door of the club. I should think there was blood in the gutter for a distance of five or six yards. I went to look for a policeman at the request of Diemshitz or some member of the club, but I took the direction towards Grove Street and could not find one. I afterwards went into the Commercial Road, and there, along with Eagle, found two officers. The officers did not touch the body, but sent for a doctor. A doctor came, and an inspector arrived just afterwards. While the doctor was examining the body I noticed that she had some grapes in her right hand and some sweets in her left. I think she wore a dark jacket and a black dress. I saw a little bunch of flowers stuck above her right bosom.


              He certainly sounds like he has perfect command of the English language.
              Why have we been led to believe that that was not the case?
              Who else do we suppose had very little or no English, but could indeed speak English moderately well, or better?

              NBFN - So, if the grape stalk was planted by the WVC, and this also takes Stride away from the club premises to the advantage of the club members, does that imply that both the International Club and the WVC were in cahoots, or is it a bizarre coincidence? If the plot thickens any more it's going to turn into a Cohen brothers film.
              It does imply it, although I would use the word 'suggest', rather than 'imply' - we don't know for sure, of course.
              I'm also suss on the Lusk letter/package - who really sent it and why?
              I'm dubious on it being a prank, but on the other hand, what does it achieve for a lone killer?
              Was there really a man with a distinct Irish accent, that asked Emily Marsh for Lusk's address, who then wrote the letter in an 'Irish accent'?
              Maybe Lusk pranked himself - 'any publicity is good publicity' - but then were did the half kidney come from?
              Did he buy it from someone?
              Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post
                You're wrong.
                One of the (apparent) errors is explained by Chris Scott:
                No, I wasn't referring to "Mrs Lewis", Stride wasn't found "lying on her back in the passage". Neither was her body conveyed "to the City mortuary in Golden Lane", but never mind, if this is the article of your choice so be it.

                What has always intrigued me, because it should be significant is the description of the hat worn by the suspect seen by PC Smith. Here, as with everywhere else in the first week we have "Hard felt hat". This was taken from the police circular published on the 1st by Scotland Yard, which came directly from PC Smith. Unfortunately, his witness statement has not survived for us to confirm that.

                The first time "deerstalker" comes into the description is Saturday following the inquest where PC Smith gave his testimony.
                In every newspaper nationwide right up until Friday the 5th, every description reads, "Hard felt hat". Sadly, press coverage of the inquest on the Saturday gives a variety of phrases like "Hard felt hat" (Daily News), "hard felt deerstalker hat" (Times), "dark felt deerstalker hat" (Daily Telegraph), so it does seem that he did say "deerstalker", but why?
                What is consistent is the hat was dark felt, commonly hard felt, which a deerstalker was not. A deerstalker was tweed, not dark felt. Interestingly the Daily Telegraph of 6th Oct. seems to make a similar mistake.

                When making reference to these two sketches, the editor calls the hat at the left (face without moustache) a "deerstalker".



                We read:
                "A man like the one without the moustache, and wearing the soft black felt deerstalker hat, as drawn, was seen by Mathew Packer...."

                The writer seems to call the soft felt hat in the left sketch, a deerstalker, but thats not a deerstalker to our eyes. So perhaps this idea that the suspect wore a typical Sherlock Holmes style deerstalker hat is wrong?
                Some people at the time were not too clear what a deerstalker actually looked like.

                Another point to consider was Packer also described the hat as "Yankee style" in a note taken by Alexander Carmichael-Bruce on 4.1.88. Yet, a low crowned, wide brim hat was colloquially known as a "Quaker hat", which is a Yankee hat, very similar to the Wideawake hat. So, we seem to be drifting a bit away from the Sherlock Holmes style deerstalker.

                It might bear repeating, that the only time the suspects hat was described as "hard felt hat" was from the 1st to the 5th of October, from the 6th and forward we read "deerstalker".
                Swanson, in his 19th Oct. report does not use "deerstalker", but described the hat as a "hard felt hat". Which might help us date the time when he actually wrote that paragraph on Schwartz, sometime between the 1st & 5th of October..






                Regards, Jon S.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think a key to discovering what actually happened is by using times within these statements...

                  Heschberg-"
                  I was one of those who first saw the murdered woman. It was about a quarter to one o'clock, I should think, when I heard a policeman's whistle blown, and came down to see what was the matter in the gateway. Two or three people had collected"

                  Issac K-"About twenty minutes to one this (Sunday) morning Mr. Diemshitz called me out into the yard. He told me there was something in the yard, and told me to come and see what it was"

                  And we have then great reasons to look again at these...

                  Morris Eagle-"I frequent this club, and I was passing into it so late as twenty minutes to one this (Sunday) morning, which was just twenty minutes before the body was discovered."

                  Joe Lave-"I was in the club yard this (Sunday) morning about twenty minutes to one. I came out first at half past twelve to get a breath of fresh air. I passed into the street but did not see anything unusual. The district appeared to be quiet. I remained out until twenty minutes to one, and during that time no one came into the yard. I should have seen anybody moving about there."

                  Heshberg and Issac K stories match in the vital areas, Laves and Eagles don't match each others. Gillen and Spooner also agree with those first 2 men, Fanny has nothing in her statement to debunk their stories, but she does have the arrival time of Louis as being after she went in at 1am, not "exactly at 1" as Louis contends.

                  So..2 men who don't see each other in the same place at the same time, Eagle and Lave, who also see none of the 4 witnesses who say they were there, and an arrival that was unseen that could not have happened when the Steward said it did.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post
                    This is worth having a close look at.
                    ...
                    Could they have possibly missed a grape stalk?
                    If I recall correctly, the yard was swilled and brushed before 5 o'clock, when it was opened again.
                    If this is correct, it is not even daylight a 5:00 am, so a grape stalk might be missed, and (we read) white petals were scattered in the yard.


                    Regards, Jon S.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Michael,
                      if the rules of the game are that references to clocks are always regarded as accurate readings of the time, even when recalled many hours later, and all other time references are always regarded as unreliable guestimates, then perhaps this would be a fair play...

                      [Many Oct 1 papers] LD: I am a traveler in the common jewellery trade, and work only for myself. I have also been the steward for the International Working Men's Club for between six and seven years, and I live on the premises of the club. For some time I have been in the habit of going to Westow Hill, at the Crystal Palace, every Saturday, in order to sell my goods at the market which is there. I got back this Sunday morning about one o'clock, and drove up to our club-room gate in my pony cart.

                      There is no reference to a clock here, nor any reference to an exact time.
                      It was about 1 am, when Louis returned, and that should be the end of it.
                      So why does Louis get another bite of the cherry, at the inquest?

                      Louis also said this to the press, Oct 1:

                      Her hands were tightly clenched, and when they were opened by the doctor I saw immediately that one had been holding sweetmeats and the other grapes. I should not like to say whether or not she had been knocked about at all in the face; but speaking roughly, she seemed to me to be a more respectable sort of woman than we generally see about these parts. I conclude this because it appears that nobody about here had ever seen or heard anything about her before. The police removed the body to the mortuary at Cable-street. When I first of all came across the woman, she was lying on her left side, her left hand was on the ground, while the right was lying across her breast.

                      So Louis at this stage knows the...
                      • state of her hands - clenched
                      • contents of her hands - sweetmeats and grapes
                      • position of her hands - left on ground, right across breast
                      He even knows what mortuary she was taken to!
                      Now to the inquest, just a day later...

                      [DN1002] She was lying on her side with her face towards the wall of the club; at least I am sure she was lying with her face to the wall. As soon as the police came I ceased to take any interest in the affair, and went on with my duties at the club. I did not notice in what position the hands of the deceased were. I only noticed that the doctor, when he came, unbuttoned the dress of the deceased, and, patting his hand on her on her bosom, told a constable standing by that she was quite warm.

                      How can he get away with this?
                      Why is this person regarded as a reliable witness?
                      Packer changed his story, and lost his credibility as a result.
                      Why not Diemschitz?
                      Why is it supposed that Diemschitz and other politically radical members of the club, approach Gentile justice with an attitude of respect and honesty?
                      What have they done to earn our trust?
                      Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                        I think a key to discovering what actually happened is by using times within these statements...

                        Heschberg-"I was one of those who first saw the murdered woman. It was about a quarter to one o'clock, I should think, when I heard a policeman's whistle blown, and came down to see what was the matter in the gateway. Two or three people had collected"

                        Issac K-"About twenty minutes to one this (Sunday) morning Mr. Diemshitz called me out into the yard. He told me there was something in the yard, and told me to come and see what it was"
                        What happened next?


                        Western Daily Press, 1 Oct. 1888, pg 8.

                        Diemschutz, with Isaacs together, went for police....
                        Regards, Jon S.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                          If I recall correctly, the yard was swilled and brushed before 5 o'clock, when it was opened again.
                          If this is correct, it is not even daylight a 5:00 am, so a grape stalk might be missed, and (we read) white petals were scattered in the yard.
                          Yes that's possible, although I would have presumed they had a few lanterns to guide them.
                          Otherwise, why not wait until sunrise? What's the rush?

                          I must admit, I don't really understand the whole Packer/grapes thing.
                          Yes, Le Grand was a crook, but does Packer change his story, due to Le Grand's influence?
                          This post by Debra A, and follow-up, seems to indicate that Packer is something of a chronic liar.

                          Did Packer really go to the mortuary, and correctly not identify Eddowes as Stride, but did identify Stride as Stride?
                          What does Le Grande gain from this (assuming it occurred), as a crook?
                          If it's all done legit, why are the WVC employing this man, or did they not do a proper background check?

                          Why does Packer have the opinion that JtR does not live "very far from Batty street"?
                          Is this just attention seeking, or does he really know - or at least sense - something?

                          As for grapes actually being in the hand or yard, at any point, I'm inclined to doubt it.
                          I think the illusion explanations for Diemschitz/Kozebrodsky & possibly Mortimer's sighting of grapes are quite farfetched, including my own.
                          The claims to having seen grapes are designed to take Stride off the property, leading up to her death.
                          So was the fruit stained man's handkerchief - it was planted.
                          As was the cachous packet - in her right hand.
                          Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                            Isaac M. Kozebrodski, a young Russian Pole, who spoke the English language perfectly, gave the following information:-
                            The Daily News reporter took a different view:
                            "A young Russian Pole named Isaac M. Kozebrodski, born in Warsaw, who speaks the English language imperfectly,".....

                            Is that an editorial mistake by the Scotsman?
                            The London Evening News appears to have copied the Daily News version, just reworded it. The account covers all the same points, but provides nothing more.
                            However, the Morning Advertiser, The Times, The Irish Times, The Woodford Times, all use an agency version, all the accounts being very similar.

                            The quote you take from The Scotsman was the same used by The Daily News, except here we read "imperfectly".:

                            "A young Russian Pole named Isaac M. Kozebrodski, born in Warsaw, who speaks the English language imperfectly, gave the following information:-I was in this club last night. I came in about half-past six in the evening. About twenty minutes to one this morning Mr. Diemschitz called me out to the yard. He told me there was something in the yard, and told me to come and see what it was. When we had got outside he struck a match, and when we looked down on the ground we could see a long stream of blood. It was running down the gutter from the direction of the gate, and reached to the back door of the club. I should think there was blood in the gutter for a distance of five or six yards. I went to look for a policeman at the request of Diemschitz or some other member of the club, but I took the direction towards Grove-street and could not find one. I afterwards went into the Commercial-road along with Eagle, and found two officers. The officers did not touch the body, but sent for a doctor. A doctor came, and an inspector arrived just afterwards. While the doctor was examining the body, I noticed that she had some grapes in her right hand and some sweets in her left. I saw a little bunch of flowers stuck above her right bosom".


                            He certainly sounds like he has perfect command of the English language.
                            Why have we been led to believe that that was not the case?
                            Who changed "imperfectly" to "perfectly"?


                            Regards, Jon S.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                              Yes that's possible, although I would have presumed they had a few lanterns to guide them.
                              Otherwise, why not wait until sunrise? What's the rush?

                              I must admit, I don't really understand the whole Packer/grapes thing.
                              Yes, Le Grand was a crook, but does Packer change his story, due to Le Grand's influence?
                              This post by Debra A, and follow-up, seems to indicate that Packer is something of a chronic liar.
                              I don't see that. The clipping by Debs merely says Packer was knocked down by two men who scoffed at him (Packer), claiming to know where JtR lived.
                              Thats all.


                              As for grapes actually being in the hand or yard, at any point, I'm inclined to doubt it.
                              I think the illusion explanations for Diemschitz/Kozebrodsky & possibly Mortimer's sighting of grapes are quite farfetched, including my own.
                              The claims to having seen grapes are designed to take Stride off the property, leading up to her death.
                              So was the fruit stained man's handkerchief - it was planted.
                              As was the cachous packet - in her right hand.
                              Isn't claiming the handkerchief was planted, without any evidence, just as bad as claiming the grape stalk was planted?
                              I'd like to know when any serious member is going to address ALL the evidence in the case, instead of cherry-picking what they like and dismissing what they don't.


                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment

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