Analyzing The Wounds

[Natasha]

I would like to look at the possible causes of the cut under Stride's right arm (TBH I was having trouble deciding weather the cut was inflicted when she was murdered or was an old cut. I am going to assume it was done around the time she was murdered).
At first I thought it may have been inflicted when she was thrown on the ground by BS man, then I thought perhaps the killer had cut her there with the knife whilst dragging her into the yard. It then occurred to me that perhaps the killer was wearing something like a brooch or something else that might have cut her as her throat was being cut.

Also I found it interesting that the neck wound tailed off downwards, something that a lot of suicides have in common in that wounds deviate downwards. Now I'm not suggesting she committed suicide, I'm suggesting that if Stride was attacked from behind and was standing up, that the killer was shorter than Stride. I'm sure that's been mentioned before, but anyway.

[Errata]

I would like to look at the possible causes of the cut under Stride's right arm (TBH I was having trouble deciding weather the cut was inflicted when she was murdered or was an old cut. I am going to assume it was done around the time she was murdered).
At first I thought it may have been inflicted when she was thrown on the ground by BS man, then I thought perhaps the killer had cut her there with the knife whilst dragging her into the yard. It then occurred to me that perhaps the killer was wearing something like a brooch or something else that might have cut her as her throat was being cut.

Also I found it interesting that the neck wound tailed off downwards, something that a lot of suicides have in common in that wounds deviate downwards. Now I'm not suggesting she committed suicide, I'm suggesting that if Stride was attacked from behind and was standing up, that the killer was shorter than Stride. I'm sure that's been mentioned before, but anyway.

Do you mean the abrasion under her clavicle?

[Natasha]

Do you mean the abrasion under her clavicle?

Hi Errata,

I was reading under the victim section on CB, and it made no specific reference to the clavicle. It just says under the right arm, so I made an assumption that the cut was made to the armpit area and not below the collar bone. Who said it was the clavicle? I don't see any mention that it was the clavicle in the inquest or PM reports. I think some of the papers may have made a mistake, because in the inquest report it was stated that there were no abrasions made to the shoulders so I would think that when they spoke about the bruises they would mention the cut being near that area also.

[Wickerman]

Hi Errata,

I was reading under the victim section on CB,...

The confusion may lay with the person who wrote that piece.
Stride's right arm was across her breast when she was found, so this abrasion was likely the one high on her breast (clavicle), near where her right hand was positioned when found.
Though I interpreted her hand/arm being somewhat lower than her clavicle.
Regardless, I'm sure its a mistake on that article.

[Natasha]

The confusion may lay with the person who wrote that piece.
Stride's right arm was across her breast when she was found, so this abrasion was likely the one high on her breast (clavicle), near where her right hand was positioned when found.
Though I interpreted her hand/arm being somewhat lower than her clavicle.
Regardless, I'm sure its a mistake on that article.

What official documents say it was the clavicle though? There is no mention in the PM or inquest reports of the clavicle.

[Wickerman]

Hi Natasha.

"The throat was deeply gashed, and there was an abrasion of the skin, about an inch and a quarter in diameter, under the right clavicle."

http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/inquests/inquest_stride.html

[Natasha]

Hi Natasha.

"The throat was deeply gashed, and there was an abrasion of the skin, about an inch and a quarter in diameter, under the right clavicle."
http://www.casebook.org/official_doc...st_stride.html

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the info, I stand corrected.

[Natasha]

I defo reckon that the killer was smaller than Stride. The wounds deviate downwards and the cut under the collar bone (am really by my mistake with that!) suggest the killer may have jumped on her back and cut her throat and whilst getting down nicked her arm. The bruises make me think this also.

With the cachous could she have been offering them to some one?

[Batman]

The pathologist report, before Schwartz testimony, described frontal bruising on the chest in addition to the shoulder bruising but said he couldn't be sure it didn't happen earlier, but they did observe it several times.

Schwartz described a front blitz attack without knowing these details.


What's important though is that JtR gets his victims down prostrate before killing them because he is forensically aware.

That is why at Stride's inquest The Corner in his closing statement found that the wounds inflicted where done the same way as Nichols and Chapman.

[Errata]

Personally I think it came from the paper packet of cachous. She would be using those often enough that putting them in her underskirt pocket wouldn't be practical. I think she tucked them in her bodice. I think the paper scraped her up a bit. Even tissue paper will, it's a sensitive area. She apparently also had her corsage there, so the paper may have been rubbing on scratches from the pin. Or she often kept things there so the packet was irritating an abrasion something else had made quite recently. I think had she not had the candies in her hand when she died, it would not be a mystery as to why the abrasion was there. Just like anyone who had ever worn heavy dark colored garments in the rain would not have been baffled by discoloration and pressure marks. Someone probably should have asked a woman about that.

[Natasha]

Personally I think it came from the paper packet of cachous. She would be using those often enough that putting them in her underskirt pocket wouldn't be practical. I think she tucked them in her bodice. I think the paper scraped her up a bit. Even tissue paper will, it's a sensitive area. She apparently also had her corsage there, so the paper may have been rubbing on scratches from the pin. Or she often kept things there so the packet was irritating an abrasion something else had made quite recently. I think had she not had the candies in her hand when she died, it would not be a mystery as to why the abrasion was there. Just like anyone who had ever worn heavy dark colored garments in the rain would not have been baffled by discoloration and pressure marks. Someone probably should have asked a woman about that.

Having read the piece under Blackwell on CB there actually wasn't any cuts: Did you notice any marks or bruises about the shoulders? - They were what we call pressure marks. At first they were very obscure, but subsequently they became very evident. They were not what are ordinarily called bruises; neither is there any abrasion. Each shoulder was about equally marked.
When it comes to pressure marks: yes I guess it could be down caused by the bodice. The discolouration, yes it could well have been from dye etc from her clothes.

So I guess case closed on this subject.

I know I'm a bit scatty sometimes when presenting threads, so I will take this as a lesson to check the facts thoroughly instead of skim reading.