Timing between Eddowes and Stride is bang on

[Batman]

Another link to sailors, although to be treated with caution due to the length of time involved, is that Cox's had a niece who claimed that she told her that MJK went often to the Frying Pan pub to pick up sailors.

As a side point I am very interested in finding out if The Frying Pan had been checked out in relation to MJKs whereabouts because it is quite far off from the others.

[Wickerman]

Hi wick
You have a mustache? Now I know why I don't like you. ; )

If your mustache cant go from small to full in six weeks then perhaps you should give it up! I could go from nothing to bigfoot in half the time! Ha!

I wouldn't know, I never shaved it off.
I was talking about how much one grows, meaning the amount that needs trimming every couple of weeks or so. That isn't a whole lot.

Well just have to disagree because I do think that the descriptions of Blotchy and peaked cap man are similar. All describe a shortish, stout, broad shouldered man in "rather" shabby to respectable (again, a very subjective description)appearance. Not dirt poor-not wealthy.

No need to explain, it is easy to tell your killer looks like a sailor when you want him to, but like shabby Greengrass when you don't.
Reshape the pieces to fit the puzzle

One of the reasons the ripper was never caught was because he was smart.

Smart, or lucky?

I doubt with the large number of witnesses who saw him the night of the double event and describing him as sailor looking and wearing a peaked cap, descriptions all in the newspapers-that the ripper would be dumb enough to wear the same hat and appearance when hes out trolling for victims again.

Only if he was the only sailor in town.
What about the hundreds of other sailors all looking for prostitutes, they didn't need to wear a disguise did they, so why should he?

Plus even without those clothes-yes Blotchy does remind me of a sailor somewhat. Drinking, pub going, with a (some time) prostitute, not too rich, not too poor, blotchy face-could be sun/wind burn.

Re your last sentence-Yes I do mind. There is a myriad other reasons why I doubt she went out again, not just because I think that Blotchy and peaked cap descriptions are similar and it could be the same man.

Well, if your view was the accepted view then the City police would have said the same as you.
Obviously it is not the accepted view, then all we need to do is think why two completely different suspects are being merged into one.

[RockySullivan]

Sorry if I've misunderstood the issue you're raising but. as regards being boxed in, wasn't Chapman's killer risking being "boxed-in" at Hanbury Street, with no clear escape route? And and as I said in my other post, if you accept she was killed around 5:30-5:45 then her killer seemed to have decided to strike just after sunrise and at about the same time that people were getting up and ready for work, which, to me, seems reckless to the point of near-insanity! I mean, he probably couldn't have chosen a worse time. It's as if he wanted to get caught!

Hi john your right which is why an early time makes sense. Someone familiar with the yard and the tenants schedules and someone who had a reason to be there

[RockySullivan]

Because when he wanted to kill he didn't care about the risk?

I think the risk was a major part of the excitement but he also think the ripper took careful steps to ensure his murders were times to the police beats. How did the ripper know no one would walk thru mitre square or dutfield yard? A lookout perhaps like pipeman

If there was too men one could have taken the apron while the other took another direction

[Wickerman]

I think the risk was a major part of the excitement but he also think the ripper took careful steps to ensure his murders were times to the police beats. How did the ripper know no one would walk thru mitre square or dutfield yard? A lookout perhaps like pipeman

If there was too men one could have taken the apron while the other took another direction

Where would you position yourself as a lookout in a location with three entrances like Mitre Square?

[Wickerman]

Another link to sailors, although to be treated with caution due to the length of time involved, is that Cox's had a niece who claimed that she told her that MJK went often to the Frying Pan pub to pick up sailors.

You recall the background story about Kelly?, of her living in Pennington St., Breezers Hill, Ratcliff Highway, etc. This is dockland, the regular customer of the prostitute in this part of London was the sailor.
It was here that she lived three years previous when Hutchinson claimed to have known her, she resided in a house where the landlord owned stables in Romford.

[The Good Michael]

Where would you position yourself as a lookout in a location with three entrances like Mitre Square?

If Fleming was the lookout he could have just looked down at all entrances.

Mike

[RockySullivan]

Where would you position yourself as a lookout in a location with three entrances like Mitre Square?

That's a hard one. How long does it take do walk around the whole square?

[GUT]

If Fleming was the lookout he could have just looked down at all entrances.

Mike

[Penhalion]

JtR didn't need to know the police beats. The women knew them so as to time their activities so the john wouldn't be interrupted before he got his money's worth, so to speak. That's the diabolically clever part of this. The women led him to the perfect places for him to murder them.

Of course there's quite a bit of luck involved too because no one could guarantee that a random person wouldn't happen along, but he was just that lucky at least 5 times.

[Wickerman]

JtR didn't need to know the police beats. The women knew them so as to time their activities so the john wouldn't be interrupted before he got his money's worth, so to speak. That's the diabolically clever part of this. The women led him to the perfect places for him to murder them.

Although this makes the most sense, it may not be applicable in each case. Very possibly with Nichols, certainly not with Kelly, neither with Chapman, and it may not even apply to Eddowes, unless Mitre Square was her regular patch. I don't recall reading anything to suggest this. I think she must have known Watkins beat, the time was so tight, but we have no clue either way.
The obvious problem with this is, these prostitutes did not carry watches, so how could they time the constables beat?

Then at Berner St. PC Smith had already passed on his beat at 12:35, so whoever killed Stride left it a bit late as he was due back any moment around 1:00 am.

Of course there's quite a bit of luck involved too because no one could guarantee that a random person wouldn't happen along, but he was just that lucky at least 5 times.

In most instances this appears to have been the case.

[Penhalion]

I'm going to explore some possibilities here, none of which I have any proof of.

First, although the women didn't have personal time pieces, they did have the church bells of the area announcing the quarter hours. If you live without a time piece strapped to your wrist or in your pocket, you develop an innate sense of time passing. You may not have it timed to the second, but you can be pretty close. Even with regular access to clocks, I find that I have an instinctive sense for how much time has passed and will typically get an urge to check on something cooking about 30 seconds before the timer I set goes off. Without looking at a clock. My father had the ability to wake up whenever he wanted to. He never set an alarm clock. If he wanted to wake up at six thirty he just decided that before he went to sleep and, presto, that's when he woke up.

Time and the sense of time are funny things.

Of course with Kelly he didn't have to worry about any coming along which I think explains the extent of his mutilations.

With Stride, his luck didn't work properly because while a beat cop didn't come by, Diemschutz DID which could not have been predicted. I think he was hiding in the shadowy corners of the yard while Louis was checking on Liz and only left after he went inside to get help.

With Chapman, he likewise didn't need to worry about a beat cop because she took him to an interior yard. I'm pretty sure that the people who lived there weren't all that shocked by extra-curricular activities in their yard and at most would have told the people to get lost. Even Cadosch didn't think much about the noises he heard and certainly didn't go out of his way to either see or interrupt what was going on. In all likelihood it wasn't the first time he had heard 'noises' of a certain sort coming from that yard.

[Wickerman]

The church clocks often chimed on the quarter hour, which is fine if something occurred on that same quarter hour.

However, if something occurs between chimes, how long was it since you heard that last chime? Three minutes ago, five, ten? - you haven't a clue really because what ever it was that happened was unexpected.
In fact in many cases hearing the chimes becomes such a 'normal' part of every day life that they often pass unnoticed.

[Batman]

Who chooses reflects degree of mutilation

Tabram - She took him to George's Yard (victim choice).
.
Nichols - I think he followed her East from The Frying Pan and attacked her after catching up to her (his choice).

Chapman - She took him back to her place on Hanbury Street (victim choice).

Stride - Aware of Dutsfield Yard behind her, after she refused his request to go in there, he blitzed her (his choice).

Eddowes - She knew Mitre Square (victim choice)

Kelly - She took him back to her place (victim choice).

4 x victim choice.
2 x his choice.

In the 4 cases of victim choice, the mutilations are higher than in the 2 cases where it was his choice, one of which was interupted before mutilation could begin and another incomplete due to witnesses coming down the road.

[RockySullivan]

I'm going to explore some possibilities here, none of which I have any proof of.

First, although the women didn't have personal time pieces, they did have the church bells of the area announcing the quarter hours. If you live without a time piece strapped to your wrist or in your pocket, you develop an innate sense of time passing. You may not have it timed to the second, but you can be pretty close. Even with regular access to clocks, I find that I have an instinctive sense for how much time has passed and will typically get an urge to check on something cooking about 30 seconds before the timer I set goes off. Without looking at a clock. My father had the ability to wake up whenever he wanted to. He never set an alarm clock. If he wanted to wake up at six thirty he just decided that before he went to sleep and, presto, that's when he woke up.

Time and the sense of time are funny things.

Of course with Kelly he didn't have to worry about any coming along which I think explains the extent of his mutilations.

With Stride, his luck didn't work properly because while a beat cop didn't come by, Diemschutz DID which could not have been predicted. I think he was hiding in the shadowy corners of the yard while Louis was checking on Liz and only left after he went inside to get help.

With Chapman, he likewise didn't need to worry about a beat cop because she took him to an interior yard. I'm pretty sure that the people who lived there weren't all that shocked by extra-curricular activities in their yard and at most would have told the people to get lost. Even Cadosch didn't think much about the noises he heard and certainly didn't go out of his way to either see or interrupt what was going on. In all likelihood it wasn't the first time he had heard 'noises' of a certain sort coming from that yard.

But how did the ripper know that one of the tenants wouldn't come out into the yard or that he wouldn't encounter someone in the hall on the way out?

I think the ripper must have watched the murder sites to time the police beats I don't think he would risk his neck on the estimates of a possibly drunken prostitute since he seemed to despise them