Liz's breath?!

[perrymason]

And Ill bet everytime you hear "please pass the bracken" you get nostalgic.

Its actually very good training from what I understand, despite the menu choices.

Oliver Twist, while Outward Bound training....

"Please sir.....no more"

Best regards Mike.

[Mike Covell]

By the end of two weeks you realise that all the foods you dislike are actually not that bad! I lost a lot of weight, and remember a particular moment when a friend caught a blackbird! It made a nice stew with some veg we had "aquired" from a farmers field!

Little things like that really made it an occasion to remember, and although we have not done anything similar for some time, I aim to return at some point!

Perhaps Stride had the cachous as they were obtained earlier and there was no particular health reason why she had them.

[caz]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

If any of you 'orrible lot posting to this thread had to offer oral sex to unwashed, very possibly diseased male strangers to make (financial) ends meet, wouldn't you want something that would at least help to take the taste away afterwards?

Do you really think a better reason is needed for an 'unfortunate' to carry cachous? These women may have lacked an awful lot of things, but I'm sure they still had their taste buds when they were killed.

Talk about a distasteful thread! Poor Liz.

Love,

Caz
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[Stephen Thomas]

If any of you 'orrible lot posting to this thread had to offer oral sex to unwashed, very possibly diseased male strangers to make (financial) ends meet, wouldn't you want something that would at least help to take the taste away afterwards?

Hi Caz

LATERAL THINKING RULES OK

[caz]

Hi Stephen,

I just think the most obvious possibilities are going to pass us by completely if we don't try to imagine ourselves wearing Liz's shoes.

Not comfy, are they?

Love,

Caz
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[Fisherman]

Hi all!

There was a longish battle on the old boards over what cachous were. And sure enough, there were cachous around that were strong, aromatic pills meant to improve a smoker´s breath.
But – and in this discussion it is a very vital but – the pills Stride were holding were described as sweetmeats, and sweetmeats are NOT strong breathfresheners.

Here´s one of many descriptions from the net:

”The term sweetmeats usually refers to candy or sweet confections. It has often been shortened simply to sweets, as in “Sweets to the Sweet.” Sweetmeats likely first began as a way of preserving fruit and/or nuts with sugar. Since sugars act as a preservative, the process of making candied fruit or nuts might aid in keeping some food items past the point when they would naturally decay.
Archaeological evidence suggests that Ancient Egyptians may have been the first culture to make sweetmeats or candy. Likely, these were made with honey. Doctors in the Middle Ages often concealed bitter medicine in candy form, so that it was more palatable to patients. However, many patients believed that medicine wasn’t working unless it tasted awful.
Sweetmeats for pleasurable consumption date back in Europe to England’s sugarplums, in the 17th century. Sugarplums were boiled sweetmeats usually made from a combination of dates, almonds, spices and honey or sugar. They were often formed into plum size shapes. Some also suggest candied raisins may have been termed sugarplums
When sugar became more commercially available, large-scale manufacture of sweetmeats began. These included traditional sweetmeats like Turkish Delight, taffy, toffee, tablet, and candies made with marzipan. All could technically be considered sweetmeats.
Frequently the term sweetmeat does not apply to candies made with chocolate. Chocolate was, as well, a New World food, so its introduction into most households did not occur until well into the 17th century. Even without sugar, Eurasian peoples could make things sweet with honey, well predating the introduction of chocolate to Eurasia.
Sweetmeats often get confused with sweetbreads. The two could not be more different. Sweetbreads are offal, taken from the thymus gland, pancreas or genitalia of young animals, most often calves, pigs or lambs. They are roundish in shape and are a favorite ingredient in many European dishes. They are a far cry from confectionery, however, and one might elicit confused looks if one requested sweetbreads at a candy shop or ordered sweetmeats for dinner.”

And here´s how Fortnum and Mason describe sweetmeats:

”Long a Fortnum's speciality, our range of candied and crystallised sweetmeats can extend a meal into the early hours - or even make one by themselves. Defined as "sweets without chocolate", they are the ideal alternative when the weather is hot or when one just feels like biting into the crystalline flavors of fruits or nuts.
Fortnum's glace fruits, glace chestnuts, pates de fruits, nougats and calissons are all made from the finest ingredients and prepared with the most traditional methods.”

I have always thought that what Stride held in her hand as she died was sweet confectionery tablets. I think that they may well have been presented to Stride along with the flower she was wearing; both items were classical gifts – flowers and candy.

The notion that prostitutes would have used strong cachous professionally is a bright one, but I fail to see that it is in any way proven. None of the other victims we see involved in the Whitechapel killings carried such tablets, and I have seen no contemporary source that points out cachous as a common belonging of a prostitute. Furthermore, they would have cost a penny or two, and as such they would have been a luxurious item for women who had barely no money at all.

Therefore I see no reason at all to try and draw any conclusions from a prostitutes professional point of view as to when the tablets would have been used. My guess is and remains that the tablets were in no way whatsoever connected to sex.

All the best,
Fisherman

[caz]

Therefore I see no reason at all to try and draw any conclusions from a prostitutes professional point of view as to when the tablets would have been used. My guess is and remains that the tablets were in no way whatsoever connected to sex.

All the best,
Fisherman

No reason for any of us to draw any conclusions, Fisherman, and a guess is just a guess, even if you use words like 'in no way whatsoever' to beef it up to the max.

It remains a distinct possibility that since Liz was a known prostitute she would have thought of at least one very good use for the cachous, which was connected with the services she provided, whether or not they were a gift from her killer and a rare luxury for her.

Or do you seriously think she would have said to herself, "When I've sucked off the next smelly old sod for threepence, I'll be sure to save these precious sweeties for when I could really use one"?

Maybe it's a girl thing?

Love,

Caz
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[Fisherman]

Hi Caz!

I really believe that when I explicitly write that it is a guess of mine that the sweetmeats were in now way whatsoever connected to sex, there is no need to get upset about that use of words. I am trying to be as clear as possible, and so it would be kind of daft to write that my guess is that the tablets were only partially connected to sex, would it not?

"It remains a distinct possibility that since Liz was a known prostitute she would have thought of at least one very good use for the cachous, which was connected with the services she provided, whether or not they were a gift from her killer and a rare luxury for her."

Evidence, please? Contemporary such? May well be there, but so far I have not seen it, so if you could provide it it would be of value!

"do you seriously think she would have said to herself, "When I've sucked off the next smelly old sod for threepence, I'll be sure to save these precious sweeties for when I could really use one"?"

No. I think she said to herself "Well, here I am with my lover (or ex-lover) in this dark, muddy, dreary yard, having to tell him off for being a complete bully. Might aswell console myself with one of them sweetmeats I got together with my flower!"

That is what I believe she said to herself. And I will only take it to market as a guess, which is why I allow myself linguistic freedom.

"Maybe it's a girl thing? "

Maybe. But my hunch is that it is leading us the wrong way to believe so. I think it was about nothing else than good old fashioned candy and a row that she tried to clear up.

The best, Caz!
Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

Something of little importance that I noticed the other day, was that there was a Chemist in Berner St.

I was reading of an incident where the proprietor of the Chemist was attacked late at night. It does seem that the chemist was open late.

The Chemist was on the southern part of Berner St, across Fairclough St.

Liz was spotted around there by Marshall at 11.45.

Just idly thinking that she may have bought the cashous from there.

[Fisherman]

Hi Jon!

Of course she could have done so. But I do not believe that cachous were sold only at the Chemist´s, far from it. That notion is often connected to the guess that the tablets were strong cachous, and I do not think that they were.

Still, good info on the Chemist. Thanks!

The best,
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi Fisherman

Sorry to interupt, but Mike (aka Perry Mason) made a good point when he observed that Stride seemed to have taken particular care in her appearance before going out the night she was murdered. It could well be that she did arrange a meeting that Saturday night. First impressions are important, and if it was a first date Stride could well have bought the cachous herself. Giving a woman a corsage smacks of an early point in a relationship. Could Stride have ditched Kidney for someone else?

all the best

Observer

[Fisherman]

Hi Observer!

"First impressions are important, and if it was a first date Stride could well have bought the cachous herself. "

Absolutely. We know she had the money when she went out that evening. Still, my guess is that she got the sweeetmeats as a gift, along with the flower.

"Could Stride have ditched Kidney for someone else?"

Same initial answer as the other question: absolutely!

The best, Observer!
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi Fisherman

Trouble is, if Stride had a date, was it the date who then murdered her? I can't quite bring myself to believe this. Could pipeman have been the date and BSM have been Kidney, when Stride was reported as being a ripper victim, pipeman was reluctant to come forward?

all the best

Observer

[caz]

"It remains a distinct possibility that since Liz was a known prostitute she would have thought of at least one very good use for the cachous, which was connected with the services she provided, whether or not they were a gift from her killer and a rare luxury for her."

Evidence, please? Contemporary such? May well be there, but so far I have not seen it, so if you could provide it it would be of value!

Well, Fisherman, my only ‘evidence’ is that it would be blindingly obvious for any prostitute at any time in history with sweetmeats of any kind in her possession to think of popping one in her gob if her services included giving oral sex to strange men who paid for sex with strange women. If you honestly don’t understand why that would be so, then I’m afraid I’m not going into any more detail for you. Ask a girlfriend.

I’m not asking you to believe this was the only reason Liz had the cachous in the first place, or that she had them in her hand when she died specifically for the above purpose (although of course it cannot be ruled out). So don’t worry about this ‘leading us the wrong way’. Looking at more than one possibility cannot do that; only considering the one - ‘good old fashioned candy and a row that she tried to clear up’ - may have already led you down a blind alley.

Love,

Caz
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[Marlowe]

It's the symbolism of the Serpent.

Would any of you casebook cuties care for a jujube LOZENGE? It's apple flavored.

Marlowe (Tssss!)