Berner St. 1909 Sun/Shadow Study

[Dr. John Watson]

Yep GUT I agree. I thought there was more going on with the gate. I'm adding one to the scene. I'll upload tomorrow.

thanks for comments all.

Hi Richardh! This may be a little off the subject, but your fascinating reconstruction project reminds me of something that's always bothered me. It's the width of the gateway between the club building and the building to its left. As I recall, each gate was found to be about 4-1/2 feet in width, making the driveway opening about 9 feet in width. Yet in the photo, the opening appears considerably narrower than that. I realize that distances in photographs can be distorted depending on the perspective and angle of the view. Still, judging from the height and width of the doorway immediately to the left of the gateway, I just can't picture the gateway being 9 feet wide. Is there a method you can employ to "test" that measurement by using other objects in the photo for comparison, such as the doorway for instance? Also, I believe someone recently discovered another photo of Dutfield's Yard, taken about the same time, showing a face-on view of the gateway. I haven't seen that photo, but if you've seen it, that might give the answer.

By the way, I greatly admire your efforts to reconstruct the murder scenes. Like the excellent artwork of Jane Coram, these reconstructions bring the murder scenes into focus better than any words. You don't have to imagine the scene anymore, you can actually be there! Thanks much for your efforts.

P.S. I'm glad to see someone else is as sick of the bloody "bloody shawl" thread as I am.


Dr. John

[Wickerman]

Hi Richardh! This may be a little off the subject, but your fascinating reconstruction project reminds me of something that's always bothered me. It's the width of the gateway between the club building and the building to its left. As I recall, each gate was found to be about 4-1/2 feet in width, making the driveway opening about 9 feet in width. Yet in the photo, the opening appears considerably narrower than that.

I know what you mean.
Accepting that everyone's screen is a different size, I think there are clues that confirm the accepted measurement.



If you measure the width on your screen of that house door to the left of the passage, then compare that with the width from corner to corner between the buildings, across the passage, you will see that the passage width is roughly three times the width of the door.
As doors are typically 36-38" wide (nominally 3ft, or more), then the passage must be nominally 9ft wide going by this very rough approximation.

By the way, I greatly admire your efforts to reconstruct the murder scenes. Like the excellent artwork of Jane Coram, these reconstructions bring the murder scenes into focus better than any words. You don't have to imagine the scene anymore, you can actually be there! Thanks much for your efforts.

P.S. I'm glad to see someone else is as sick of the bloody "bloody shawl" thread as I am.

I'll second that!

[richardh]

Thanks for the kind replies.
There are some discrepancies between the Goad plan I used and the photograph (the one with the cartwheel) and because of this I had to make some allowances which has inevitably resulted in small variations of accuracy.

I've done a few measurements and concluded that the passageway entrance to Dutfield's in my model is about 8 feet wide. BUT looking at the Goad Map that I used as an 'aerial shot' I can see that my model is in actual fact a bit too narrow. So I would say that 9 feet wide is about right. Certainly there is an illusion of the passageway being somewhat narrower but when the camera moves toward the passageway and turns to look up toward Dutfield's yard you can see that in actual fact it is quite wide.

I'll post a short movie of what I've got so far to demonstrate the passageway width.

[Dr. John Watson]

I know what you mean.
Accepting that everyone's screen is a different size, I think there are clues that confirm the accepted measurement.



If you measure the width on your screen of that house door to the left of the passage, then compare that with the width from corner to corner between the buildings, across the passage, you will see that the passage width is roughly three times the width of the door.
As doors are typically 36-38" wide (nominally 3ft, or more), then the passage must be nominally 9ft wide going by this very rough approximation.

Thank you Jon. Yes, I can see what you mean, and it is the angle of the shot that throws me off. Actually, Richard's model shows the opening more clearly than the photo, so the true width is easier to visualize. I wish the photographer had moved a few feet up the street and taken a straight-on shot of Dutfield's Yard to document the scene of a famous murder. Of course, it's always possible that he didn't know of it, which begs the question, why was the original photo, and one showing the flats on Berner St., taken at all?

Thanks Richard, I'm looking forward to seeing your video and the finished product.

Dr. John

[richardh]

Right, I've been working on Dutfield's Yard. I'm about 50% complete so I thought I'd share an aged snap of what I've got so far.

Still very basic but I'm pleased with things so far.

Here is a snap:


Need advice on the cottages and the side of the workingman's club (windows, doors etc.)

[GUT]

Right, I've been working on Dutfield's Yard. I'm about 50% complete so I thought I'd share an aged snap of what I've got so far.

Still very basic but I'm pleased with things so far.

Here is a snap:


Need advice on the cottages and the side of the workingman's club (windows, doors etc.)

G'day Richard

Looking good.

I do think that you may have added one bay too many to the building on the right. That's when I compare it to the sketches. It seems you have three "bays" the sketches both have two.

[richardh]

Thanks,
So do you think that Jane's painting is the correct configuration for the cottages on both sides?

[GUT]

G'day Richard

Personally I'd go with this one:

http://wiki.casebook.org/images/thum...fieldsYard.jpg

[richardh]

Okay, Gotta start over. Everything's wrong. That image at the start of this thread will be updated when I have something to replace it with as it's clearly an inaccurate depiction of Dutfield's Yard.

Sorry
Update soon (ish)!

[Hatchett]

Hi Richard,

That is excellent.

Thank you.

[GUT]

Okay, Gotta start over. Everything's wrong. That image at the start of this thread will be updated when I have something to replace it with as it's clearly an inaccurate depiction of Dutfield's Yard.

Sorry
Update soon (ish)!

G'day Richard

I don't think it's that wrong. And really appreciate the work you put in.

[richardh]

GUT
That 'photo' snap at the start of this thread doesn't really show all the glaring errors I've made.
e.g
The wooden stairs are on the wrong side (should be to the left rather than the right), The building next to the stairs is totally wrong. Should be single story with a different roof shape. The cottages you mentioned and which I updated are wrong again. Should be only one doorway with four windows which make up the right side of the ally (which is the workingman's club). And oh so many more errors...

I'll get it right eventually.

G'day Richard

I don't think it's that wrong. And really appreciate the work you put in.

[richardh]

Thanks Hatchett but that 'photo snap' is full of mistakes. It looks good but it's totally inaccurate.

Hi Richard,

That is excellent.

Thank you.

[GUT]

GUT
That 'photo' snap at the start of this thread doesn't really show all the glaring errors I've made.
e.g
The wooden stairs are on the wrong side (should be to the left rather than the right), The building next to the stairs is totally wrong. Should be single story with a different roof shape. The cottages you mentioned and which I updated are wrong again. Should be only one doorway with four windows which make up the right side of the ally (which is the workingman's club). And oh so many more errors...

I'll get it right eventually.

What has persuaded you re the stairs and I thought the club was reported as having two doors, [but will need to try and find that reference].

[richardh]

Well, the Dutfield's Yard (Phillip Hutchinson) photo and analysis in his book 'Location Photos' showed me where I was going wrong. I've had that book for ages but foolishly forgot about it. Then someone mentioned it and jogged my memory. Hutchinson demonstrates that most of the contemporary drawings are inaccurate and shows by way of the photograph where things were such as the wooden steps and the cottage door/window configuration.

The Goad fire map shows the steps on the left hand side whereas the drawings (and Jane's paintings) show them on the right.

So by using the Hutchinson photo along with Goad etc. I can start again and maybe this time get it right!

What has persuaded you re the stairs and I thought the club was reported as having two doors, [but will need to try and find that reference].